Deborah Kado: I’mteaching a medical course here at Stanford, Ico-direct a course called Being Mortal, and one of our lecturers did ask, iftheycould live forever—the students—would they want that? And I think thelecturer was a bit surprised that very few of the medical students at leastadmitted that that would be something that they would even desire to do. No,they were not interested.[00:00:26]Sarah Cavanaugh:Welcome toPeaceful Exit, the podcast wherewe talk to creatives about death, dying, grief, and also life. I'm SarahCavanaugh, and my guest today is Dr.DeborahKado, a geriatrician and co-director of the Stanford Center on Longevity at Stanford University. Dr. Kadohas spent her career thinking about what it means, not just to live longer, but tolive better, and what it looks like when those two things come apart. In thisepisode, she shares what her earliest patients taught her about the end of[00:01:00]life andwhat any of us can do, starting now, to age with dignity andpurpose.Welcome to Peaceful Exit.[00:01:17]Deborah Kado:Thank you so much. It's just a pleasure to be here[00:01:20]Sarah Cavanaugh:You started out caring for HIV and AIDSpatients before there was effective treatment options. How did this experienceinform your decision to specialize in geriatrics and start thinking aboutlongevity?[00:01:33]Deborah Kado:Wow. That takes me back quite a few years. Uh,that was basically my early medical training and yes, we didn't even have AZT,which was the first approved medication forHIV/AIDSat that time. So what Ihad to deal with as a young house officer was be able to help people who Icouldn't cure[00:02:00]and who, in fact, I lost. One of the most impactfulmoments of my residency was actually—this particular person didn't haveHIV/AIDS. He was one of the most kind people and every day—and he was abit older, actually he was one of my older patients. He had had prostate cancerand he said to me. every day I'd see him and he would say, I want to go home.And then I would say, you require antibiotics through the vein and we can't, atthat time, give them at home. I need you to stay in the hospital until you finishthis course of at least seven days and we'll see how you do. And then I’dcomeback the next day and I’dsay, how are you, Mr. So-and-so? And he would say, I want to go home. He was very clear, Iwant togo home. So then, in mylogicalmind, I said, I can send you home, but I can't send you home with this[00:03:00]treatment. And if you don't have this treatment, then you will passaway because I can't treat your infection that's in your blood. He looked at mevery clearly andsaid, Iwant togo home. So I said, okay,I've arranged for youto go home today. I remember very clearly at 2:00 AM the next morning I get acall, a page, on my beeper—back then we had beepers, not phones—and Ianswered and it said, hello, this is the, uh, police department. I'm calling youbecause there is this patient, who has passed away. I need to verify that youwere the last doctor who took care of him. I then knew who it was and I verifiedit. And then his partner came on the phone, and he just thanked me profusely. Ihad never met this man before in my life. He said, thank you so much. This isexactly what he had wanted.[00:04:00]and his dog was with him. And so eventhough it was tough, I felt very like I did the right thing. Thinking back on it,like sometimes when you go forward you don't really see these things, but thatis a case I remember quite well.[00:04:17]Sarah Cavanaugh:That's such a remarkable story in part becauseyou saw him as ahuman being, as a patient and what he wanted. It seems as ifthe medical establishment just pushes you to save lives, save lives, save lives.But in this case, you stopped,and you saw him, and saw his humanity, and it'sreally beautiful.What were your earliest experiences with death? We heardabout your professional experience—but what about personally?[00:04:44]Deborah Kado:Yeah. So my first major loswasmy maternalgrandmotherwhen I had just turned five. I got to spend a lot of time with her,and I don't recall having[00:05:00]any recollection of her being ill, but she hadovarian cancer. I never visited her in the hospital and I did not go to her funeral.Maybe a month after she passed I became aware of the concept of death. Andthat I remember very clearly. But another thing I remember from that time,which was amazing,I think I grieved, I had a dream probably around that time,I, where, I don't know, my mother must have been reading meBedKnobs andBroomsticks or something, but I ended upon a magical bed with a turninghandle on the head, and I flew up in the sky and I got to meet my grandmother.[00:05:40]Sarah Cavanaugh:So your concept of death was this mystical storyas a 5-year-old. Did you have any lasting impressions of what cancer was?[00:05:49]Deborah Kado:I think I was very protected. So I heard the wordcancer. I didn't appreciate that she was looking sick or getting ill.[00:06:00]SoI don't think that was any part of my memory. They really at that time,right, it was -- 

[00:06:06]Sarah Cavanaugh:Yeah. They didn't talk about it.[00:06:08]Deborah Kado:Yeah,right.[00:06:09]Sarah Cavanaugh:It's very true. So when people hear aboutlongevity, they often think about living longer. How do you personally define along life?[00:06:19]Deborah Kado:Chronological time is, if we're gonna say long life, Iwould define it that way. And fortunately, a baby born today could reasonablyexpect to have a century long life, which is really unusual. This is the first timethat we are seeing this. That being said, I think we have more than 120,000centenarians now living in the United States alone. I think of a long life assomeone who's reached a hundred.[00:06:44]Sarah Cavanaugh:And what makes it a good long life?[00:06:47]Deborah Kado:Interestingly, the centenarians who I've had theprivilege of knowing, I think most would say that they've had a good long life,even though as[00:07:00]we get older we just become more heterogeneous. Ihave people who are completely dependent on someone else for their daily livesto those who are still living independently and doing the things that they wereprobably doing when they were 80. I think maybe people who might belistening would say, well, how can a hundred year old who is essentially bedbound and who has lost so much function, and maybe some cognitive function,say that they've had a good long life? And I would respond, that really dependson the individual because it's their perception of how their life has been. And Ican't judge that.[00:07:38]Sarah Cavanaugh:What have you found tends to matter most topeople in their final months or years and what surprisingly stops mattering?[00:07:47]Deborah Kado:Sometimes it's a pet at home. who means the most.But for a lot of people, if they're lucky enough to have family and friends, Ithink it comes down to the people who are close to them that they[00:08:00]really wanna have that connection with the people they love, who they realizethey won't be around for. And I feel that a lot of those people, in a way, some ofthem want to provide reassurance to those people who they're gonna leavebehind. But on the other hand, I have other people who very much, I think theystill up until the very end don't want to acknowledge that they're leaving thisworld. It's almost like it's not happening and we're not talking about it. And soit's life as usual, talking about maybe goals that they have for the future, even though everybody's looking cross-eyed because they're wondering how are theygoing to do that if they're confined to this bed with tubes, with this diagnosis, etcetera. So it's just very variable[00:08:46]Sarah Cavanaugh:So what's the right time to begin thinking aboutlongevity? If someone wants to age well physically, but also emotionally,socially, spiritually—what should they start doing now, even in their thirtiesand[00:09:00]forties?[00:09:00]Deborah Kado:Maybe I should take that little piece from when Iwas a kid, thatrealizing that sometimes you don't feel like it, but healthbehaviors are so important for longevity. I tell my patients who are late eighties,nineties, that if they've been a couch potatotheir whole life, but they happen tosurvive, uh, that it's not too late to get up and do something.Becauseyou canstill build muscle at any point in life, but if you started earlier, it'll just probablybe easier and you might be at a higher level offunction. So, for instance, studiespublished back in the late 1990s where they looked at people who wereendurance trained versus sedentary people and something called the VO2max,which is a measure of fitness.Basically those who were the highest trainedendurance level, over timethere was a decline in VO3max with age, and thensame thing with the sedentary people across those same age groups. But overtime, those people who were sedentary[00:10:00]would have more healthconsequences. So it's just anidea that the more you put into the bank earlier on,the better you're gonna probably be later on.[00:10:07]Sarah Cavanaugh:What kind of goals do you typically recommendpatients set as they age? And what everyday habits do you think have thebiggest payoff later in life, not just for lifespan, but for dignity andindependence at the end?[00:10:20]Deborah Kado:So with my patients, they have been so differentfrom across a lot of sectors that I generally begin by doing a listening tour to seewhere their experiences are, and then ask them what their goals may be. And itis true, or at least anecdotally what I recall, when I start asking people over theage of 90 what their goals are, I think I've had more than a chuckle. Like, areyou kidding me? Why? What? But I do think that goal setting is important, andso then we have to look where that person is. So some people may have beenmore active before and just[00:11:00]stopped maybe due to knee injury, say,playing tennis. And so they just really didn't find anything else that they like.They are now whatever age and they're watching TV four hours a day. Then it's,can you get out of this chair where we're talking by yourself? Can you getout ofthe chair without using your arms? And if they can, then I say, that's good, but  don't take it for grantedbecause if you keep doing what you're gonna do, that'sgonna be tougher. Uh, and oftentimes couches are kind of cushy, so people willbe like, oh yeah, I can't really get up off the couch without some extra help. Andso that will be the goal. And, uh, I know we have the remotes now andeverythingand commercials can be irritating, but literally maybe let them playand that's when you get up out of the chair and go for a little walk aroundwherever you are and then come back down, just to get up and do somethingduring the day. So a goal can be as simple as that. Other people have moregoals, like I always wanted to run a half marathon, but I never did it, but[00:12:00]now I'm too old. I'd say, really, are you? Let's see how we couldpotentially reach that goal. But if they haven't been trained, I would recommendif they have the resources to have someone who knows what they're doing to beable to guide them on how to do that safely.[00:12:14]Sarah Cavanaugh:Do you talk to people about stress?[00:12:17]Deborah Kado:Oh, yeah.[00:12:19]Sarah Cavanaugh:There was an article about Blue Zones, and itmade me think of my mother when she was in her fifties. She was working, allfour of her kids had left the home. And she looked at her calendar and everysingle day had something seven days a week. She and my father were verybusy, so she instituted what's called a yellow day, because she took a yellowmarker like a highlighter, and she said, at least two days a month, we're notgonna have anything scheduled. And she would mark it. She would just takethat yellow highlighter and put in a, a couple days a month that there was justnothing. No plan. And[00:13:00]so you mentioned someone who's on thecouch a lot and sedentary and maybe not able to get off the couch, but whatabout the other extreme, where you're working like full out and really not takingany rest?[00:13:13]Deborah Kado:To answer your first question, yes, I do talk topeople about stress, but often that is in the context of if we're in a, say,doctorpatient relationship. And I say, oh, you do these things, they’ll be, I have notime. My life is too stressed. It's too full. How am I, I'm taking care of an elder,I'mtaking care of kids. I work a full-time job and you're telling me to go getsomeextra physical activity. Exactlywhen do you expect me to put, put that in?And so I love your story about your mom realizing that she probably neededsome downtime. And I think when you put that at the forefront and think abouthow can you get there, you could make it happen. But I do remember being apatient myself, a young mother,and my doctor saying,[00:14:00]well, yourblood pressure's a little high. You know, you look like you're stressed. I'm like, I am stressed, you know, I'm stressed. You need to, why don't you go do somedancing or something? And I remember thinking, how am I supposed to fit thatininnmy day? But I did follow the doctor's advice and I said, you take care ofdinner this night. I'm gonna go to this dance class. And it was thebest advicethat physician for me at that time gave. Okay. So, but thinking about stress nowmore from a research standpoint, not that I've studied stress specifically, butwhat I'm aware of is I kind of put it in two different bins. One is stress where weactually do have more agency over our time. Like, we can modify what we doand how we choose to do things, whereas other people have extrinsic stressfulthings that they can't control. And I think it's that stress that is reallydebilitating. Those are where the real[00:15:00]ill health effects occur.[00:15:01]Sarah Cavanaugh:How do you think connection with family,friends, community, as well as feeling a sense of purpose impacts longevity andyour quality of life?[00:15:10]Deborah Kado:I would say as a species, humans tend to thriveunder social connection. There are studies that have shown that socializationwill impact longevity in a positive way. To have some external validation ofwho you are and why you're important and to be able to spend your time doingthings that matter to you in the company of others is extremely powerful.[00:15:36]Sarah Cavanaugh:How should we be shifting the way we thinkabout mortality and longevity as people begin living longer lives than everbefore?[00:15:44]Deborah Kado:I, yesterday, was sent a slide deck from somebodyand I was reading through it and came across this quote, which,I don't knowanything about Gilgamesh. But this is the quotethat I came across that I thoughtwas[00:16:00]really interesting: is accepting mortality the key to living ameaningful life? And I stopped and I read that quote and I wroteitdownbecause a lot of people who are in this space will say that dying is a part ofliving. It's a part of the process. It is something that alot of us in society, wedon'twant toface because it's so unknown and it's scary. So I wondered if thatquote, if people are able to accept that yes, they too one day will pass along,wellthat then helps them think about their life in a different way.[00:16:48]Sarah Cavanaugh:It made me think about an interview I had withMary Roach and she was talking about a scientific innovation that's trying toactually 3D print living tissue. And I was thinking[00:17:00]about whathappens if we can remake parts of our bodies so that our bodies physically lastto 130, 140? I'm just so curious about what that does to our mental health, to our overall wellbeing, if we're trying to make this sort of meat sack last longer.What she really came out with was the body's such a miracle, the way thesystems work, and we have not been able to figure out how to replace all theparts.[00:17:30]Deborah Kado:Our technology is more powerful than it ever hasbeen. I think there's scientists who are out there today who believe that perhapsthere could be some type of immortality achievable. I think we're far away fromthat now, and I think there are a lot of sociological implications of consideringwhat that might actually look like. I do get the sense, and maybe it's forwhere Iam, but that it's really a minority of people who[00:18:00]feel that urge. Andthat's why they get in the space is because they really dread the idea of gettingolder and losing function and passing along. I would say on teaching a medicalcoursehere at Stanford, I co-direct a course called Being Mortal, and one of ourlecturers did ask if: they could live forever, the students, by I guess replacing anorgan, would they want that? And I think the lecturer was a bit surprised thatvery few of themedical students at least admitted that that would be somethingthat they would even desire to do. No, they were not interested.[00:18:37]Sarah Cavanaugh:I'd love for you to talk a little bit more aboutwhat you're doing now, including teaching.Deborah Kado:Yeah, yeah. Well I'm co-director of the Center of Longevity,run by professor LauraCarstensen. At this moment, I'm teaching a course on theundergrad campus that has almost a hundred students. It's, uh, it's actually calledLongevity, and focuses on this idea that a baby born[00:19:00]today can live acentury long life, but how we're set up as a society in so many different facets,we're just not well prepared. So we're putting it on the students to try to figureout how can we think aboutaging societies, and really take advantage of theopportunities that we have now that will involve, uh, from birth all the way intodeath. How can we think about education, finances, aligning health spans withlifespans?Uh, the fact that work-life balance, like if we think about it now atage 65, we potentially have another 30 plus years to live, do we stack it all atthe end? Why could we not have more flexible work weeks so that we couldsay, you know what, you need to be more relaxed and get rid of yourstress.Wouldn't that be amazing if you could magically have an extra day during awork week to actually do those things, those kinds of things? So I'm teachingthat. I am still applying for grants to further the research in the gut microbiomeand aging to better understand the[00:20:00]microbiome, and how importantthat is in the mind-gut area, as well as health outcomes and circadian rhythmsand things like that. Musculoskeletal aging is still something that is big and close to my heart. And then I amseeing patients a half day to a full day a weekin the outpatient setting, currently at the VA.[00:20:28]Sarah Cavanaugh:What kind of advice would you give me as ayoung person, a young-ish person—I'm 60, I feel young—about bone health?Because I already have a diagnosis of osteoporosis right on the line, andrecently had cancer treatment where they removed any kind of support for thebones.[00:20:39]Deborah Kado:So, fortunately in 2026, we have great options. Andwhat I do usually isI go over the health behaviors. So we're talking aboutfeeding your body the proper nutrients, which does not necessarily includesupplements in my book. So it's really about getting and making sure in your[00:21:00]case, it would make sense to say check a 25 hydroxy vitamin Dlevel, just look at the amount of calcium that you're getting in your diet. Ifyou're already a dairy eater, you probably don't need any extra calcium. Wethink about 1200 milligrams of calcium a day 'cause we know calcium and Dare important for bones, but not to go crazy about that.It'smore about gettingenough fresh fruits and vegetablesin your daily diet, avoiding processed foodsas much as possible. I tell people who are like you and you're saying that coffeeis okay, if youwanna add milk to your coffee, all the better, don't add artificialsweetener or creamers,uh, in general, I would not suggest that. I think coffee byitself black would be better than that. Then I talk about physical activity and Igenerally use the physical activity guidelines that have been published since2018, which are basically 150 minutes a week of walking or moderate activity.And then also two days a week of doing muscle strengthening and resistance.And to[00:22:00]that, which is not includedin the public health servicemessage, is thinking about balance because 95percentof fractures occurbecause of a fall. So literally, even if your bone density is in the toilet, uh, if youdon't fall down, the likelihood of fracture goes down. And then Italk aboutmedications, and the medications—still the number one treatment is abisphosphonate, which was first FDA approved in the United States in 1995. Itsgeneric name is alendronate, its trade name is Fosamax. That got a lot ofnegative press starting about 2008, where everybody thought this was apoisonous drug because it made your bones more brittle. And the reason whythey thought that was because there's certain individuals who would developthigh bone fractures that they call atypical femoral fractures. Extremely rare.But fortunatelyanorthopedic surgeon at Kaiser Southern California who lookedat every single x-ray that came through,found that in particular Asian femaleswho were[00:23:00]thin, who were on this for a lot longer than five years,were the ones that were at the highest risk of developing this complication.Since then,TheEndocrineSociety and other societies have pulled back against,this is not a drug you take forever. It's something that you take for a prescribed period of time.And there have been multiple trials of thousands of women andmen, some men, to show that this medication is efficacious with few sideeffects. And the other reason why I'm focusing on this medicine, by the way, Ihave no conflicts of interest here, uh, with this medicine is becauseof all theother medications—and now in 2026, we have multiple medications we canuse to treat osteoporosis—and all those other medications, including, let's goback to hormone replacement that could be used or menopausal hormonetherapy, really helps protect bone and have was shown to prevent fractures. Allof those medications, once you stop them, you're gonnahave a resumption ofbone loss such that a bisphosphonate, if you can tolerate it or something[00:24:00]like alendronate is what you'd be on. So there's no purposein goingon any of those other medications unless you're ultimately gonna be willing togoon this drug, but it should not be forever. And studies out of New Zealandpublished in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that people whodon't even have osteoporosis but have low bone density, those people who justgot one injection of a drug called zoledronic acid every 18 months, for fourinjections over six years, had a decreased risk of, um, a fracture. They also hada trend to have less mortality. It's actually a medicine that works and shouldn'tbe used forever, has to be dosed appropriately, but I would take it if I needed it.And I think it's been shown, for instance, in cancer survivorship studiesto showa benefit of decreased metastases and also overall survival. So, and there aresome people who are studying it in terms of, in the aging space, because peopleare dying less in these trials over three years, which is crazy.[00:24:56]Sarah Cavanaugh:What is the name of the medicine again?[00:24:58]Deborah Kado:Zoledronic acid.The[00:25:00]trade name isReclast.[00:25:01]Sarah Cavanaugh:Well, thank you for all of that. And I know bonehealth is kind of your wheelhouse.[00:25:07]Deborah Kado:Yes, yes.[00:25:08]Sarah Cavanaugh:Clear, clearly, clearly your wheelhouse. I'mstepping back just a little bit, sort of a 10,000 foot question. In 2024, theaverage retirement age for human beings, I am guessing, in the United States,hovered around 63 years old. But many of these folks,obviously now that we'retalking about a hundred year lifespan, have a couple of decades left. Should webe rethinking how early we stop working? 

[00:25:33]Deborah Kado:I do think we should be thinking about how wewant to spend our time, if we're, let'sjust say, getting to be about that age.Because I think people who stop and then don't have a plan, that's when itbecomes really tough to retire. And again, I think it[00:26:00]depends on thejob. So some people who have jobs that they really love anddon't wanna stopworking and are still contributing meaningfully. I don't feel like they shouldthink that they need toretire around age 63.On the other hand, what if you aredoing a physically demanding job and it's just not the same and you actuallydon't like it?You’reusing it because it pays the rent and, you know, makes itpossible. Then I think absolutely you should think about retiring, but, like a lotof us go to college or some don't go to college, but we never really feel like wetook advantage of what we learned in college. So there's so many opportunitiesfor continuing to learn a new craft, to think about something that people said,hey, you know, you're really good at, you really have a good eye at designing.Have you ever thought about maybe doing something along those lines? Or howcan you learn something new that would be interesting to you, that would allowyou to spend the time in a way that you would find meaningful? And if you'relucky, be able to make some[00:27:00]money to be ableto continue to survivein this world.[00:27:03]Sarah Cavanaugh:So in our culture, we worship youth. How doesthe Center for Longevity embrace aging? I was thinking about the interestingsort of interplay between aging wellwith your health, but there's also all of thispressure to like, look young, stay young. How does your work contribute to sortof embracing our natural aging?[00:27:26]Deborah Kado:One thing about our Stanford Center of Longevity,I kind of consider oneof the earliest in its time that it even had longevity in thetitle. So many other academic institutions have aging centers, healthy agingcenters across the country. But this is really a longevity center that's not justmedically and health focused, butfocused across the spectrum of society. So,for sure there's interest in looking good, you know, like, let's,[00:28:00]let'soptimize health spans. I think a lot of people are interested and they hearlongevity and go, oh, it must be about how can we look young forever? I thinkthat one of Laura's big contributions—I mean, it's not like she went into thisand had this idea, oh, aging is a net positive. It was really her research as apsychologist, where she did the seminal studies that, that kind of reported thatpeople, as they get older, seem to report getting happier. Hey study has sincebeen, her findings have been replicated by other people at separate institutions,and over 340,000 people from the UK. It does tend to be this, right? And sopeople are like, whoa, wait a minute. How could older people be happier?They're turning gray, they're getting wrinkled, they can't do the things that theyused to do, just slower, whatever. So I think she spent her career really studying this in addition to running this longevity center. But what her subsequent[00:29:00]research showed, like, why is that the case? It's because I thinkolderpeople also realize time horizons in a different way than younger people. Forexample, one study she did was ask people ofdifferent ages, if you could onlyhave dinner with someone, who would you choose? And older people wouldfocus on likely people who they already knew who were important to them, toreally solidify those meaningful relationships. Where, if they were younger, saycollege age, they would be more likely to explore, well, well, why wouldn't Iwanna have a conversation with this amazing so-and-so who's known for this, tolearn and expand their horizon? So as we age, we see the time horizon, and thatmakes us be able to, I think, make choices about focusing on the now and what'simportant to us now, as opposed to thinking like we have endless time left. So Ithink it's more just kind of reframing how we think about it.[00:30:00]Yes,there are losses. Anybody,all my patients who are over age 90, all of them havehad some major challenges, whether they be personal, whether they be healthchallenges, whether they be emotional challenges, definitely losses. Most ofthem have lost most of their friends. Some of them have lost their own childrenor even grandchildren, which is devastating. I think it doesn't make sense in ourminds that our children should go before we do. All of these things. So I think atour center we really think about, yes there are challengesofgetting older, butthere are also all these benefits. And the fact of the matter is now, in 2026, ourdemographic, we all hear, oh, it's the aging society. Everybody's so old andthere're gonna be so many old people compared to young people, which is alltrue. But it's actually even. We are gonna find about the same number of peopleacross time. When you think about that, how prepared are we as a society? Inthe[00:31:00]1935, when Perkins came up with Social security, it made sensebecause people should retire around age 63, 65, and then their life expectancywasn't that much more. The system, the government could pay them so that theycould enjoy the rest of their lives. That model is not working anymore becausethey're just way too many older people for the younger people to support in thesystem.So the Stanford Longevity Center is thinking about, okay, how can wechange institutions to better understand this same idea with education? Why isall our education completed by the time we're maybe 18 or ifyou're lucky, 22?Does that make sense? Does this model of education really work for society thatpotentially is gonna live a hundred years? Should we reframe how we'rethinking about how we educate people? Should we more broadly be thinkingabout finances? Because we know that happiness, for instance, we all say wewanna be happy[00:32:00]as we get older. To be happy, you need some basicnecessities. You have to not be hungry. You should have a place to live and feelsafe. You wanna have a certain amount of freedom and flexibility. But beyondthat, all those extra things, they don't contribute to more happiness. I know likelottery winner studies have shown this kind of thing, like, you think, oh, all I need is more money and I'll be more happy. That isjust not a truth,unfortunately or fortunately.[00:32:26]Sarah Cavanaugh:Do you personally feel happier as you growolder?[00:32:29]Deborah Kado:Yes. Isn't that crazy? I said that without eventhinking. I feel so lucky because, especially 'cause I get to teach just amazingstudents. But I see where they are, and the studies have also shown this—to bein your twenties is totally stressful. If we're talking about stress, there's so manyuncertainties, you know. And yet, now I've been there and I've done so manythings and they can't believe it. And I said, wow. I guess that—it wasn't like, itwasn't stressful all along, 'cause I definitely had stresses.[00:33:00]Uh, for sureI had a lot of challenges. But, now I can feel that peace with that. Like, okay,well I survived, you know, look, I can't complain. I'm here talking to you.[00:33:12]Sarah Cavanaugh:Yeah. Well, I'd love to ask you a question I askall my guests, and that is, what does a peaceful exit mean to you?[00:33:20]Deborah Kado:I think it is true as you get older, death seems closerjust because you start losing people who are meaningful to you and you seethings happen. I think I've lost two good high school friends, for example,already.So peacefulexit for me is basicallyknowing that when my time comesthat I'm okay with how things are, and that having the people who do care aboutme and love me, feeling confident that they're gonna be okay. But also havingconfidence in knowing that I'm okay.[00:34:00]That would be a peaceful exit.