Sarah: Welcome to Peaceful Exit, the podcast where we talk to creatives about death, dying grief, and also life. I'm Sarah Cavanaugh, and if you're a regular Peaceful Exit listener, then you know I ask all of my guests thesame question at the end of every episode: what does a peaceful exit mean to you? There have been many overlapping themes in people's responses, but so far no two replies have been exactly thesame. Today we're going to revisit the answers from our amazing season six guests. Their full episodes are fabulous, so I hope you check those out if you haven't yet. You can find them whereveryou listen to podcasts, or on YouTube, or on our website at peacefulexit.net. 

So here in order of appearance are the wonderful, creative people who join methis season on Peaceful Exit, talking about what a peaceful exit means to them. First up, Dr. BJ Miller.

Sarah: Well, what does a peaceful exit mean to you?

BJ:I think it is one where we don't need to reconcile paradox, where we can have simultaneously conflicting emotions, and we can be all that we actually are without being ashamed. The fact that we create structures that make you feel like you don't belong is really important. So the sort of man made sources of pain and suffering are the ones I'm interested in changing. That's the activism, that is the part of this experience I actively want to change. So back to your question about what a peaceful exit would be to me, one would be where I can be butt naked and throwing up and smell weird and be maybe even terrified and screaming, but be whole doing it. Be not at odds with myself doing whatever I gotta do. So it may not look peaceful in a typical way, but that's the kind of peace I'm seeking.

Sarah: Complete authenticity, just where you are in your body or out of your body.

BJ:Yes. Period. Exactly right. Yes. All of the above. 

Sarah:All of the above.

BJ:Yep. 

[00:02:10]Sarah: Dr. Lucy Hone.

Sarah: What does a peaceful exit mean to you?

Lucy: I think of my mother when I think of peaceful exit, because she had that. She died very young, she was 63, but she did say to us,“I'm okay to go because you're all married and you've all got children.” And so that is the peaceful exit, feeling like she felt like her work on this earth was done. And I echo that feeling. I feel very grateful to have had everything that I have had and everyone that has been present in my world. And I think it is really important for apeaceful exit to accept all that this life gives us. The good, the bad, the ugly, all the love, all the loss, all of it.

[00:03:05]Sarah: Lisa Keefauver. 

Sarah: So what does a peaceful exit mean to you?

Lisa: I think a peaceful exit is abouthaving been and being able even til the end to show upand be seen as I am, without pretense.

To show up and have agency to the degree that I can in my life, and to have lived a life of meaning and connection and humanity. I want to be surrounded by the people I love. I don't want to be fighting till the bitter end, that is not of interest to me. So my answer to the question, if we could do one thing in our culture to respond to grief differently, would be a similar answer to this—which is to hold space, and to bear witness, and to be present.

[00:03:57] Sarah: Mary Roach.

Sarah: What does a peaceful exit mean to you?

Mary: A peaceful exit—being surrounded by someone, at least one person, who loved you and valued you. I think knowing that they're there, even if you'remostly checked out, just having that person there, I think, would be comforting and calming. I remember when my father-in-law was in hospice, we were all there,and 10 o'clock at night we went back to the house but his wife stayed there with him. And he was mostly out of it, you know, the final stages of dying, you're not there in the present, in the room. But at one point he woke up and she was there and she said, “Billy, what do you need?” And he just pointed at her. Doesn't that kill you? Oh my God. Sorry. Do you try to make all your guests cry?

Sarah: What is your mother-in-law's name?

Mary: Jean. Jean. Yeah. He just pointed at her. Oh my God. And then, you know, that was the last interaction that they had. He died the next day, but hecame, you know, he kind of rallied and woke up at one point. They were together 60 years. That's a peaceful exit right there.[00:05:26]Sarah: Jenny George.

Sarah: What does a peaceful exit mean to you?

Jenny: When it's my time, I hope I'm there for it. Like that would be my, my version of a peaceful exit for myself. Of course, I hope I'm with folks I love and maybe at home myself, but mostly, I think it would be lucky to get to know that I'm dying when I die. That kind of, like, special consciousness that mortality makes possible. That, for me, would be a pretty remarkable and essentially peaceful way to go. Not fighting it, but collaborating with it.

[00:06:08]Sarah: Kaleel Sakakeeny

Sarah: What does a peaceful exit mean to you?

Kaleel: I think for those who truly believe that their soul will ascend, their spirit will be reunited with the loved ones that they've lost, or there will be the face of God, or the face of the creator, and that touch and that presence, will bebeautiful, magnificent, comforting. Then I guess there is that peaceful exi tbecause they're merely moving from one room to the next. They just—the lightis not being put out as Tagore says. It's just that the lamp is being lowered because the dawn is rising. That's a peaceful exit.

[00:06:58]Sarah: Jessica Correnti.

Sarah: What does a peaceful exit mean to you?

Jessica: I think a peaceful exit means having everything that makes it as calm, as individual, as as personal as it can be. With my daughter, she had an exit and an entrance all at the same time. While it was profoundly sad, it was also very peaceful and beautiful, which sounds really odd, but we knew exactly what we wanted in that moment. And sometimes a peaceful exit means having the people that really matter in the room. Having the sounds, the music, having these things identified of what your wishes are. That's a peaceful exit to me, having all of those priorities granted.

[00:07:49]Sarah: Carla Fernandez

Sarah: So what does a peaceful exit mean to you?

Carla: I think about the,in the year that my dad had to prepare for his death, where I know he was able to have some conversations that he probably wouldn't have had if he'd been hit by a bus. One night when he was in his cancer journey I remember the feeling of like, of course I would rather have had him around foranother 40 years or 30 years, but there's also peace that we found in anticipating his exit. It kind of forced some reconciliation. That's what it means to me is, like, the chance to right the wrongs. The chance to, like, be honest. The chance to come to terms with a life imperfect, yet well lived.

[00:08:33]Sarah: Suzanne O'Brien

Sarah: What does a peaceful exit mean to you?

Suzanne: It means a good life, and you know, what does that mean? It means not missing it. I remember there was an 80-year-old man and he had five children, and it was one of the wealthiest houses I've ever been in, not monetarily—in love. You could tell that they had connection, they had a quality of life, and there was just such an organic piece. And at the end, I remember there was one daughter who told me he was reaching up and he was talking to someone that she couldn't see, and he kept saying, "Are you here to take me? You look so young. You look so young." And it was just fascinating. But she said everything was so peaceful. But what I mean about all of that was it wasn't just him that had absolute acceptance, and then they were able to care for him with what was needed. It was really wonderful.

[00:09:30]Sarah: James Crews

Sarah: What does a peaceful exit mean to you?

James: I would love to say that it means all the loose ends of a life have beentied up, but I, I'm old enough now to know that that's probably not possible and incredibly unlikely. And so a peaceful exit for me means finally being okay with what is. The messiness, the beauty that has been given to me that I have maybe hopefully been able to create for other people in my life. A peaceful exit does not mean that I feel like my work is finished. It means that I have done as much of the work I was brought here to do as possible, and it means the ability to surrender.

[00:10:32]Sarah: Dr. Deborah Kado

Sarah: What does a peaceful exit mean to you?

Deborah: I think it is true as you get older, death seems closer just because you start losing people who are meaningful to you and you see things happen. I think I've lost two good high school friends, for example, already. So a peaceful exit for me is basically knowing that when my time comes, that I'm okay with how things are. And that having the people who do care about me and love me, feeling confident that they're gonna be okay, but also having confidence in knowing that I'm okay. That would be a peaceful exit.

[00:11:18]Sarah: If you've ever considered how you might answer thisquestion—what does a peaceful exit mean to you—please share your answerwith us. We may read it on a future episode. You can email your answer to us at peacefulexitpodcast@gmail.com.