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Death and Money with Lynne Twist

Lynne Twist is a globally recognized philanthropist and author of two books, including “The Soul of Money: Transforming Your Relationship with Money and Life.” Death and money are two of the most difficult subjects to talk about with our loved ones. With Lynne's years of experience working with people of many different cultures, she shares a deep understanding of the role money plays in our lives. Lynne talks about money as a tool for peace in alignment with our values, and what to do with it when we die. There’s no right, one-size-fits-all answer, but we provide a roadmap of some of the questions we should ask ourselves, the decisions that must be made, and how to get started.


Sarah Cavanaugh: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Sarah Cavanagh, and this is Peaceful Exit. Every episode, we explore death, dying, and grief through stories by authors familiar with the topic. Writers are our translators. They take what is inexpressible, impossible to explain, and they translate it into words on a page. My guest today is Lynn Twist.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Lynn is a globally recognized philanthropist. An author of two books, including The Soul of Money, Transforming Your Relationship with Money and Life. Death and money are two of the most difficult subjects to talk about with our loved ones. These two subjects converge in this episode as we unpack the three toxic myths of our culture.

Sarah Cavanaugh: When you hear the question, how much is enough? Lynn offers a different kind of enough. She links wealth to well being, especially in the final days of life. She emphasizes how [00:01:00] important our relationships are to our well being in life and in death. This isn't financial advice. She's helping us make sense of, and maybe change the way money works in our lives.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Lynn talks about money as a tool for peace, when spent or given in alignment with our values, and what to do with it when we die. There's no right, one size fits all answer. But we provide a roadmap of some of the questions we should ask ourselves, the decisions that must be made, and how to get started.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Welcome to Peaceful Exit. So we're going to talk about death and money. Oh 

Lynne Twist: my god. 

Sarah Cavanaugh: Yeah, two really tough subjects. I love talking about death. Uh, you love talking about money. And I thought we would just, um, see where the synergy is. And we love talking to each other. And we love talking to each other. So it's perfect.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Yep. And as you know, I mean, Peaceful Exit is about [00:02:00] kind of facing our mortality on a broad spiritual level. But it's also about planning and deciding, like, a micro level, what, what we need to do to kind of get ready for the end of our lives. And, uh, I think money impacts us on both levels. And so let's start with the big picture.

Sarah Cavanaugh: I would love to hear you kind of talk about your framework and your high level guidance about scarcity versus abundance. 

Lynne Twist: Well, I have been privileged and honored to work with people and their relationship with money my whole life. And I've learned so much about how frightened and upset and confused and dysfunctional and hurt and wounded we all are in our relationship with money.

Lynne Twist: So I start to realize something is afoot here. Yeah. That's not. Right! And I discovered the lie of scarcity. Here's what I'm talking about. The unconscious, unexamined belief, [00:03:00] it's like a lens through which we look at the world, and no matter where we look and no matter what we see, ah, there's not enough.

Lynne Twist: There's not enough time. Oh, I don't have enough of this. There's not enough of that. There's not enough square feet in our house. There's not enough market share. There's not enough volunteers. There's not enough sleep. There's definitely not enough money. There's not enough, but there's not enough. Siren song of a commercial culture is loud and blaring and it never stops and it's supported by advertising and marketing, which is very skillful now, telling us We need more of everything.

Lynne Twist: So there's three toxic myths in the great lie of scarcity. The first is, there is not enough. The second is, more is better. And the third is, that's just the way that it is. 

Sarah Cavanaugh: Yes. So how would you link scarcity to 

Lynne Twist: dying? Well, I, it's like I'm not living long enough. I'm not living well enough. I'm not productive enough.[00:04:00] 

Lynne Twist: I'm not smart enough anymore. I'm not healthy enough anymore is the I'm not enough part. And then the more is better, more years, more time, more drugs, more, more this, more that. Is, applies to, you know, our end of life dilemmas. And then that's just the way that it is. I'm gonna die when I'm gonna die, and in between now and then, I'm gonna get as much as I can together for me and my kids.

Lynne Twist: I'm gonna live as long as I can, and I'm gonna make sure I have more than I need, because otherwise, you know, my God, I'll be in, in bad shape. So, it's a desperate part of aging. The whole grasping for more, grasping for more life. Yeah. 

Sarah Cavanaugh: Yeah. And in your experience, in all the conversations you've had, do you get the question, how much is enough?

Sarah Cavanaugh: And especially in light of our expensive medical machine, as you enter the late stages of your life, you know, [00:05:00] how much is enough to hold so that you Have the care you need or want or I'm just curious 

Lynne Twist: Well, they don't ask me that and it's a good thing because I don't know anything about cash. They ask their financial Advisor they ask their wealth planner They ask people who know about stuff like that who can do all those calculations and that that's where that question Belongs if they want an amount What they ask me is a different kind of enough to deal with what is the warp and wove and beauty of your life that you want to focus on in your, in your final years.

Lynne Twist: What is the, what I call the true wealth of your life? The word wealth comes from the word well being and the word well being comes from the well of being, which is infinite. So that's, That's actually the kind of wealth that I engage people with. What is their sense of [00:06:00] wellbeing as they get closer to the final days of their life?

Lynne Twist: Because that's really where enough lives. And that is, Can you be in a space of profound appreciation, profound gratefulness, which is the source of the word gratefulness. Can you be in that place where you're harvesting the goodness, the, the juice, the well being is in your relationships with your children, your grandchildren, your friends, your, your loved ones, even your ancestors who aren't even here.

Lynne Twist: And are you savoring. The experience of being alive and that's the definition of the word enough. I 

Sarah Cavanaugh: love that So what are unconscious messages that we pick up about money in this 

Lynne Twist: culture? Well, we we use the word success to mean are you making a lot of money and a successful person? can be someone who's [00:07:00] kind and works nights as a security guard and and feels really what they're doing is ethical and helpful to the museum that they're guarding at night and goes home and sleeps in the day and has time, you know, in the early evenings before they go to work to play with their grandkids, you know, that can be success.

Lynne Twist: So we've hijacked so much of What people really, really, really want and replaced it with money. That you can't be successful if you don't have money. You can't be happy if you don't have money. You can't have your marriage work if you don't have money. You can't be a good parent if you don't have money.

Lynne Twist: It's like as if you can't be a good person. You can't be a happy person. You can't be a successful person. You can't even be a whole and complete person unless you have money. And it's so not true. And we all know that. And that is, um, it's heartbreaking to me. It's heartbreaking. Because we see people [00:08:00] that are in a conversation about their life that's so not a match.

Lynne Twist: for what could be if they shifted their conversation. 

Sarah Cavanaugh: But I do love that distinction between money and identity and the fact that we have conflated our identities with how much we have or don't have. Yeah, that's a really important distinction. I 

Lynne Twist: really think, especially people who are facing unknowable end.

Lynne Twist: Someone who has cancer or they know that the clock is really ticking like ALS. How to be with that, for example, and how to be fulfilled knowing that the end is near is a beautiful gift, actually, to know that the end is near so that you can really savor What it means to be alive. What it means to love.

Lynne Twist: What it means to be surrounded by love. [00:09:00] What it means to know that this body Is just, you know, it's a temple, a beautiful temple, yes, God bless it, but it's not you. So there's so much opportunity to walk a different walk than, than we're sort of brainwashed to walk regarding the end of lives. And I've seen people do that, and you have too, and I've seen people do it so well.

Sarah Cavanaugh: So how, how do you personally shift from a scarcity mindset to a sufficient mindset, a sufficiency mindset? Is it a daily practice? 

Lynne Twist: Well, first I'll do a little framing and then I'll say some of my practices. But I believe we live not in our lives, not in our relationships. I believe we don't live in our marriages or our jobs.

Lynne Twist: I believe we live in the conversation we have about our lives. I believe we live in the conversation we have about our [00:10:00] relationship, the conversation we have about our body, the conversation we have about our home, our community, our world. And we may not be able to control our body, our home, the world. In fact, we can't.

Lynne Twist: But we have absolute omnipotence over the conversation we have about our lives. We have absolute omnipotence over the conversation we have about our job, our relationship, our world, our home, our marriage, our everything. And we forget that. And so I manage my conversations with a lot of attention, attending.

Lynne Twist: So if somebody's in a conversation that doesn't nourish what we all know to be true, I can shift it. Or I can walk away from it. Like if it's a conversation about gossip, if it's gossip, I walk away from it, or I say, you know what, I'm not that comfortable with this conversation, so I'm going to step away.

Lynne Twist: So I manage the conversation I'm in, and let me just go to your, now [00:11:00] your question. I have a deep respect for the power of gratitude. And gratitude has two great branches, you know, as Brother David Estella Ross, the great Benedictine. Monk, who's in his 90s, he says two branches are gratefulness and thanksgiving.

Lynne Twist: And gratefulness is the experience of life when the bowl of life is so full that it's almost overflowing, but not quite, sort of bow to the top, but not yet dribbling over the edges. And that's the experience of the great fullness of life. You know, that's watching a baby be born. That's watching this, the sunrise.

Lynne Twist: That's, you know, we have, we have those moments all the time, the great fullness of life. And when the bowl of life overflows, it moves you over into the other branch of gratitude called thanksgiving. And all you want to do is share and contribute and serve and make a difference with your life. So these two branches of gratitude.

Lynne Twist: are where I choose to [00:12:00] live in my conversation. So when I wake up in the morning, even if I went to bed at 3am, I, I say to myself, I am grateful these three hours of sleep. I'm grateful for a whole day ahead of me where I can be useful, perhaps productive, perhaps in relationship with people I love, perhaps make a difference.

Lynne Twist: And at the end of the day, rather than thinking about all the things I did get done, I look back and see what I did accomplish. And it's a simple shift of a lens. You could go to sleep thinking, Oh my God, I have so much to do tomorrow and I'll drool over it tomorrow. Oh my God, I got nothing done today.

Lynne Twist: This was such a bad day. Or, Gosh, you know what? I did accomplish that. I did accomplish that. I did accomplish that. I think it was a good day. Um, so we have omnipotence. over our own conversation about our life, about our day, about our, our, about everything. I would love 

Sarah Cavanaugh: to read a passage out of your book because I [00:13:00] think this speaks to what you were talking about.

Sarah Cavanaugh: We think we live in the world. We think we live in a set of circumstances, but we don't. We live in a conversation about the world and our conversation about the circumstances. When we're in a conversation about fear and terror, about revenge and anger and retribution, jealousy and envy and comparison.

Sarah Cavanaugh: then that is the world we inhabit. If we're in a conversation about possibility, a conversation about gratitude, and appreciation for the things in front of us, then that's the world we inhabit. 

Lynne Twist: Yeah. And I want to make sure that people know that doesn't mean to step over the fact that the climate crisis is terrifying.

Lynne Twist: It doesn't mean to step over, uh, the realities that, uh, there's conflicts that's just almost unbearable in the Middle East. It doesn't mean to step over that you got hurt by a [00:14:00] conversation with someone who accused you of something you didn't do, or, you know, spoke unkindly to you that you don't have something you need to express to kind of let go of the wound.

Lynne Twist: All of that's really, really important. Even those conversations can be beautiful. Eight in those conversations can be nourishing, can be helpful, can be honest and real and authentic. 

Sarah Cavanaugh: Yeah, you're very active in philanthropy and as someone who's raised millions of dollars for the social sector, how do you suggest someone with Some resources, not the billionaires.

Sarah Cavanaugh: How, how should we give during our lifetime? 

Lynne Twist: Yeah, well, I feel fundraising and philanthropy is such a beautiful way to really have a healthy relationship with money because it's like water. It needs to move. It needs to [00:15:00] flow to make a difference. Um, but what breaks your heart? What makes your heart sing?

Lynne Twist: You put those two things together and you have a philanthropic portfolio, you know, and who are the people you want to engage with that you feel are your kind of human being that have the kind of commitment to integrity and love and a vision that you have? Is there something that you see that you feel called to participate in and that you can feel is yours to do?

Lynne Twist: There's signs. There's so many signs. 

Sarah Cavanaugh: It's interesting to me, in the fundraising circles with foundations and philanthropy, it seems like the conversation is shifting. It seems like more foundations are spending up, holding on to less of their money and getting more of it out in the world. Are you seeing that in your work?

Lynne Twist: Um, well, I, I want that. I feel like the holding on to it now, particularly given the challenges we have in the world, is, is, [00:16:00] is just, it's almost not even ethical. There's so much that money can do. You know, it's, it's funny for me to say that because I, I know I do want my kids to be okay. I want my grandkids to be okay when I'm gone.

Lynne Twist: I want to make sure that I'm somewhat helpful to them. At the same time, maybe that money should go to make a world where they're okay, rather than the money to protect themselves from a world that's not okay. And that's a really valid dilemma. I think it's a valid inquiry. I don't have the answer to it for anybody.

Lynne Twist: It's up to them. I'm pretty sure it's not an either or, but I do know that for some people, that's what they struggle with more than anything as they begin to approach the end of life. Yeah. 

Sarah Cavanaugh: It's complicated. It's very complicated. Yeah. Well, in your experience, is there a certain age where things shift and people think about giving back in their end of life before they die?

Sarah Cavanaugh: Or is that a conversation that still needs to be [00:17:00] had? It 

Lynne Twist: depends on the culture, really. But I say Philanthropy should be part of the whole thing. The word means love of humankind, and I would expand that to mean love of the community of life. So it doesn't have to be human centric, all philanthropy, because there's a lot of other parts of the living world that need our attention and our financial resources.

Lynne Twist: But you know, I love it, and I really do love it, to see my grandchildren. You know, making contributions, uh, trick or treating for UNICEF, uh, giving part of their allowance to the Lighthouse for the Blind. I love it when their entrepreneurial spirit takes over and they want to earn more money than they have now so that they can give more money, and I love that.

Lynne Twist: Anything like that with children is really beautiful, so it doesn't, you don't need to wait until you're 80. . And for some people they're so driven to earn money at a certain stage that they wanna get super secure before [00:18:00] they give money away. I don't wanna be critical of that. My, my God, anybody who's generous deserves the the right to do it at a time when and wants a fit for them.

Lynne Twist: At the same time, they're missing out. I say on so much fulfillment and satisfaction that could come so much earlier in their life. So I think it's a lifelong path. And if you can walk it, your life will be richer, the world will be better, and you'll model a way of being that's clearly a healthier relationship with money than the one we normally have.

Lynne Twist: You're 

Sarah Cavanaugh: making me think of my grandmother. When my grandfather died, she was sort of set free in a way because she now had the pocketbook and she began to give and generously and built a music center at a university near her where she lived and she would go to the concerts and they had a special chair for her [00:19:00] right in the front on the right side and the choir would lead her.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Parade by her, and everyone in the choir would greet her as they went up on stage, and they would do their performance, and she just absolutely loved music, and to this day, she's long gone. They put a bouquet of flowers on her chair every choir concert. It gave her so much joy at the end of her life. 

Lynne Twist: I loved that.

Lynne Twist: It's beautiful. Yeah, that my mom was like that. My mom did an amazing, you know, kind of end of life giving. It was so inspiring. Can you tell me about that? Um, well, she, she, she had 13 grandchildren when she was facing the end of her life and she knew she was going to die probably in September. That was her choice, really.

Lynne Twist: She could have had another zillion treatments, but she decided, no, this is, I'm done. She was 88. And we, we all took turns taking care of her and one of my wonderful, wonderful good fortunes was I was on duty when she decided I want to give [00:20:00] some money to my grandchildren while I'm still here. And so each day we took a photograph of one of the grandkids and she had them all over the place and I put it in front of her and we lit a candle and she'd talk about Mark, her oldest grandson.

Lynne Twist: And she would say, Oh. Let's just talk about how much I love Mark. He's so responsible. Oh, he's so handsome too. Oh, and he's so kind. And he, and she'd do this whole thing about Mark. It was so awesome. And then she'd start a letter to Mark acknowledging, you know, this, and I remember the time when, and so, and here in close with this is 10, 000.

Lynne Twist: I really want you to have this before I go. I'd love to hear from you. How does it feel to receive it? And I've got a candle in front of me. I've got my picture in front of me. We're all just sitting here. We're just talking about how much I love you. And then we would send it off to Mark. And the next day we would take Melody.

Lynne Twist: Get a picture of Melody, candle, the whole thing. And 13 days. It was so. Awesome. And the [00:21:00] grandkids, you know, they could thank her. They could tell her how much they loved her. And they did. So she was, we were all swimming in love. And it was, you know, 130, 000, which she figured she could afford. That she wanted it to, she didn't need it anymore.

Lynne Twist: She was going to die soon, so she, out it went. And what happened out of that was so glorious. And then another thing I just want to say because it was such a cool thing she did. She decided that she wanted all the people who had become so close to her at the end of their life to sit with the family in the front of her funeral.

Lynne Twist: She wanted that lady, the cleaner's name was Violet. Violet is always so cheerful when I brought my things in and she did specials. She would sew buttons on for me because my hands shake now and I can't do it. And I want Violet, I want you to sit right up in front. And Johnny, the delivery boy at the pharmacy, Every time we deliver my medicine, we, I'd sit down and ask him how was he doing in school because he's in [00:22:00] college and he had two jobs.

Lynne Twist: She always went when she was ambulatory to a particular restaurant and she asked always to sit at the table of the waitress that she loved. And so that waitress, we called them and I said, Mrs. Tenney's on the line. She actually wants to invite you to her funeral. Please, I know it sounds a little macabre, but actually she knows she's going to die.

Lynne Twist: She's kind of excited about going and she loves you so much. She wants to invite you. to the funeral, and I'll be letting you know exactly when and where, uh, but it'll be sometime in September, we think, and she just wants to talk to you. So she told them all this, and these people were like, oh my god. We did it with maybe, I don't know, her manicurist, her hairdresser, the gardener, I don't know, maybe 20 people.

Lynne Twist: And sure enough, when she died, they were some of the first people I called. I mean, I called the family. I don't know, I just thought that was amazing. 

Sarah Cavanaugh: It is amazing the people we see every day, and that recognize us. [00:23:00] Your mom left a beautiful legacy. She did. 

Lynne Twist: And, you know, I say in my book, legacy is the way we live, really, as much as what we leave.

Lynne Twist: Because she showed me a way of living, rather than it'll have to be something after she was gone, if you know what I mean. Yeah. And the way of living is, is something I have after she's gone. So it's kind of a paradox what I'm saying, but 

Sarah Cavanaugh: both things are true. Well, and it's outside of the realm of money.

Sarah Cavanaugh: It's not a tangible thing you're talking about. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Because we leave all sorts of legacies, right? Yeah. I had an interview with Katie Butler, who wrote The Art of Dying Well. She's a journalist who's written a couple of books about end of life. In her book, she talks about leaving an emotional legacy.

Lynne Twist: How does she define that? What does that mean to her? 

Sarah Cavanaugh: Katie defines it as what you're talking about, which is at the end of your life, clearing your relationships with those you love, making sure that you've expressed your care and concern for the people you care about, [00:24:00] and that you don't leave behind a big mess.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Yeah. Because Oftentimes, and I know you've seen this with families who get torn apart, you know, when a parent dies, especially if money's involved. Like if, if there's something funky with the, with the will or, or there's no information about it. Well, my mom, 

Lynne Twist: you know, died knowing she was going to die and almost kind of when.

Lynne Twist: My dad had a heart attack at age 50 with no warning. We all went to bed one night like everybody does in a family. Four children, my grandmother lived with us, my mom and dad. Mom was 46. He was just hit to turn 50. And then he just didn't wake up. He had a heart attack in his sleep. And our family went into absolute, total turmoil.

Lynne Twist: My mother didn't know where the checkbook was. She didn't know the safe deposit box. She had no idea where there was an insurance policy or if there was one. It was just horrendous. So I had, you know, the two extremes, you could say, [00:25:00] and I saw the chaos that took place after my father died, so I know that that's not ideal.

Lynne Twist: Yeah. 

Sarah Cavanaugh: We can leave all sorts of legacies after we die, and as you know, career, family, inheritance. And I just wonder about money consciousness. How can we communicate about being more conscious about our money and the legacy we're leaving around money? Because I think someone in my course this time around in my cohort was saying, I have one child.

Sarah Cavanaugh: I've always just thought I'd leave everything to her. And now I'm like, Oh, maybe that's, not what I should do. And so what are the things we should think about? 

Lynne Twist: Well, I hesitate to say there's a, uh, this is better than this, or that is better than that. I think it's really personal. Um, I was once in a conference working with this group called More Than Money, and in the front row of the conference was a beautiful young girl.[00:26:00] 

Lynne Twist: And no matter what I was talking about, she was kind of tearing up every 10 seconds and then eventually, you know, full on crying. So at the first break, I sat with her and I said, what's going on? She said, I'm going to be 21 on December 1st and my father is leaving me 350 million. I don't want it. And I wish he wouldn't do it, and I'm scared to death, and I don't want anyone to know, and I feel horrible that that's going to be part of who I am.

Lynne Twist: Can you help me? And I remember saying, I know he must love his daughter. He must think this is the right thing to do. So I tell that story, not that I had a solution for her, I mean, I did work with her, and we, I coached her, and we created a whole. Beautiful legacy. But I, I, I feel like we really need to be mindful about what it can mean to the person that we leave money to [00:27:00] and how to do it in a way that actually truly honors them, empowers them and is a match for who they want to be.

Lynne Twist: So it's a very good question and it's very personal and it's also who are these people you're going to be? Dealing with what is their dharma and, and can you serve their real dharma with, uh, giving them a bequest or will it debilitate their real dharma? And it's not either or once again, it's not dualistic.

Lynne Twist: There's many, many things in between. 

Sarah Cavanaugh: If you had it to do differently with your mom, is there anything you would change or something you would add when your children are with you at the end of your life? 

Lynne Twist: Oh my goodness. Thank you. Bye. Um, well I'll just confess we have, we being Bill and I, have worked to do it in this department and we haven't done it even though I took your course.

Lynne Twist: So the first thing I want to do is say if something happens to us tomorrow I would want to apologize [00:28:00] for not having it all set up. That's okay. But um, I have a friend named Faye. And her husband is Ron. And Faye's mother and father did the most amazing thing. So her mother had cancer. Her father did not.

Lynne Twist: They were probably in their seventies when it became clear that her mother was going to have a pretty painful deaths because there was no treatment for the kind of cancer she had. And they would manage the pain as best they could, but it wouldn't be pretty. So Faye's mom and dad made a decision to shore up some of her medication, particularly her sleep medication, um, and not take it every other night so that they had a really healthy supply after four or five years to go together.

Lynne Twist: And they didn't tell anybody they were going to do this, but during those five years, they got everything figured out. They got a buyer for their apartment. They sold the art. They donated, they [00:29:00] planned and set up the papers to donate this to that and donate this to that and leave this to this grandchild and this to that grandchild.

Lynne Twist: And it was like tied up like a bow. And then invited Faye and Ron, their daughter, and it's on a lot of comfort dinner on a Saturday night. And then at the end of dinner said, Just check us in the morning. Come stop by. And they had dinner that night. They had a beautiful dinner. Lots of memories and joy and wonderfulness.

Lynne Twist: And the next morning they came and checked in and the door was unlocked and there was a note saying, Please come to the bedroom. And then there they were. The mom and dad holding hands. Rose petals all over the bed, you know, a couple glasses of champagne, and um, they were gone. And there was a letter saying everything is complete, everything's done.

Lynne Twist: Here are the papers. We've taken care of everything. And the dad had written it and said, I just [00:30:00] wanted to escort her to her final destination. So I'm going to. I hope you'll forgive me. But we're, we're ready and we want to do this together. And um, we made it as easy as possible. And thank you for a beautiful life.

Lynne Twist: And I just love the way they did that, you know. So, um, I don't know. Maybe we'll do that. I don't know. We haven't, we haven't done the work, uh, to answer your question. I just know I don't want it to be a horrible mess for my kids and grandkids. And, um, on this interview is helping me be resolute and recommitted to beginning that process.

Lynne Twist: So. It is easy for them. Yeah, 

Sarah Cavanaugh: I'd love to ask you about your experience of aging and what it's like to be in [00:31:00] your 70s, 78, and still going full out, full bore. 

Lynne Twist: Um, well, I, I call myself re fired rather than retired because of how much I love being alive, how much I love my work, how much I love my. My colleagues, how much I love to make a difference.

Lynne Twist: So I fell more deeply in love with life as a result of my book, living a committed life, meaning living a life that's committed to something larger than you can ever accomplish in your lifetime. If I can help that be a trajectory that I really believe will serve, then I'm going to do that until I die.

Lynne Twist: And aging is so Wonderful in that context. It's so wonderful because You can go until you drop, number one. Number two, you are in the flow of [00:32:00] wisdom, because when you have a stand that's powerful, the resources come, the wisdom comes, the guidance comes, the universe supports a commitment, the universe supports a stand, so I will keep going until I Until I'm not able.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Yeah. Well, so I know you don't know for sure, but in this moment, what does a peaceful exit mean to you? It means 

Lynne Twist: leaving this planet, knowing that I've made a contribution. It means, when and if possible, being able to acknowledge and celebrate all the people that I love and care about the way my mom did.

Lynne Twist: And that I feel complete in my relationships. No resentments. Or as few resentments as I can possibly clean up and as few regrets as I can clean up. And also [00:33:00] leaving a pathway forward for my children and grandchildren that is a path of compassion, grace, ease, and um, clarity in a way that after they complete whatever grieving process they go through, they can move forward in some form of unity and collaboration and good relations.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time today. It's such a gift. 

Lynne Twist: My pleasure. I loved it. Thank you for your time and thank you for your leadership for all of us in this thing that we'll all do someday. 

Sarah Cavanaugh: Thank you for listening to Peaceful Exit. You can learn more about this podcast and my online course at my website, peacefulexit.

Sarah Cavanaugh: net. If you enjoyed this episode, please let us know. You can rate and review this show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. This episode was produced by Large [00:34:00] Media. You can find them at larjmedia. com. Special thanks to Ricardo Russell for the original music throughout this podcast. More of his music can be found on Bandcamp.

Sarah Cavanaugh: As always, thanks for listening. I'm Sarah Kavanaugh, and this is Peaceful Exit.


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