Impermanence in Buddhism

Like authors, faith leaders are a great source for language about life and death. Venerable Jue Ji is a Buddhist nun who grew up in Taipei, Taiwan, and now calls Austin, Texas, home. Death is a key focus in Buddhism and Venerable shares ways that we can incorporate the idea of impermanence in our daily lives. We talk about how nature reflects impermance back to us, the afterlife, the death of her mother, and how her take on meditation is different from what many westerners think.

You can learn more about Venerable Jue Ji's work here.

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Sarah Cavanaugh: I'm Sarah Cavanaugh, and this is Peaceful Exit, the podcast where we talk to creatives about life and death.

I've always said that writers are our translators because they put words to parts of life and death that are impossible to explain. I love language, and I've found that faith leaders across all religions are another great source of language about meaning and purpose. I think we learned so much by talking about how our fellow humans worship, how they conduct rituals, and how they put words to this tough subject.

I can't wait for you to hear my conversations with faith leaders, including my chat today with Venerable Jue Ji. She's a practicing Buddhist nun based in Austin, Texas. I got a little history lesson, and I now have more language to talk about the Buddhist faith. I can really appreciate how much death is part of their daily practice.

Venerable Jue Ji, welcome to Peaceful Exit. I am so happy to meet you.

[00:01:19] Venerable Jue Ji: Hello, Sarah. Nice meeting you on the screen.

[00:01:21] Sarah Cavanaugh: I love language. And, I want to be precise with our words. Can we start with a mini lesson about some terms that we'll use in this conversation? For example, venerable is a title not often used in Abrahamic religions, um, certainly not in Western culture. Can you say what that means?

[00:01:46] Venerable Jue Ji: I should start from, what's that in Chinese? So my name is Jue Ji, and in Taiwan, where I come from, people will call me Jue Ji Fa Shi. And that Fa Shi, literally, means Dharma teachers.

[00:02:02] Sarah Cavanaugh: And you live a monastic life. What does that mean?

[00:02:03] Venerable Jue Ji: In Chinese Buddhism, all the monastics should lead a celebrate life.

So we renounce the household life and going to a Buddhist monastery, Tang should abide, uh, our master and then lead a communal life together with other monastic practitioners, which we called it as a Sangha community. And in a Sangha community, we have to follow certain rules so that, uh, the community members can live harmoniously together.

[00:02:44] Sarah Cavanaugh: Are there any other shared words or words that you brought in your faith that might be helpful?

[00:02:51] Venerable Jue Ji: I should start from what the Buddha discovered that everything is changing all the time. It's impermanence, and, uh, many of us, we we don't have, I think if you put on the scale, the term impermanence is, would be more on the negative side instead of a positive side, because usually we are seeking after, we want to grasp something good.

And when something bad happens, we seldom think about it's impermanent, but when we are in a happy mood, then, oh, we don't want to say goodbye to our best friends in our birthday party, we want to hold on to the happy moment. So this, this is a very human. And so the first thing I would share with people that we want to see.

Everything happened in our daily life. It already show us the truth of impermanence, the changing color of the leaves. For example, now in Austin, the trees in my outdoor garden already, they are going to change the colors and the temperature also are changing from three digitals to a more comfortable 90 degree something.

So all these. The nature around us are telling us everything is changing all the time.

[00:04:28] Sarah Cavanaugh: Indeed, things are changing all the time. You practice humanistic Buddhism, which I understand to be about integrating your spiritual practice into everyday life. But how do you define that, and how is that different from other Buddhist philosophies?

[00:04:46] Venerable Jue Ji: My master is Venerable Master Hsing Yun, and he, he advocated a special term that he called it humanistic Buddhism, so he want to emphasize that Buddhism is to be applied in our daily life, because some people think that just reading the Buddhist text or just sitting on the meditation cushion or just living far away from people in a remote area and that is practice of Buddhism.

My master says no, um, that we we should not only benefit ourselves from the spiritual cultivation, but also we have to help others to walk on the same path. And so this comes from a very important Buddhist idea that all the living beings are integrated as one. So the oneness or the coexistence of all beings are very important.

It is out of compassion that we want to share with others. We want to help others to get out from the suffering. And so this is very important spirit. We call it Bodhisattva spirit. And what is a Bodhisattva? Bodhisattva is a Buddha to be. So for all Beings who want to become fully enlightened, just like the Buddha, uh, we all walk on the path of what we call the Bodhisattva path.

And my master is teaching us that when you help others, actually, We benefit ourselves most.

[00:06:58] Sarah Cavanaugh: How did you find your way to Buddhism?

[00:07:01] Venerable Jue Ji: My way to Buddhism actually is with the help of my family. My brother, my eldest brother, started learning Buddhism first. And he went back home doing, practicing sitting meditation.

That was very weird too. Teenager for me at that time. So I tried to make fun of him. Uh, so he says that, okay, if you are so curious about what am I practicing now, I will show you, I will guide you to the two Buddhist monastics who are giving the lectures and started from there. Then I, I learned the Buddha's teaching, which is not common.

For people like my age, because the school education, they don't put religion in the course. So if you want to know religion, then you have to do that by yourself. And at an age of not knowing too much about life's suffering. So I just accept Buddhism as it is. Thought to me, and I like that philosophy of the law of cause and effect, the theory of karma, the idea of cyclic rebirth, and the idea of past life.

First, uh, present life and future lives. Then I was also introduced by that, uh, elder eldest brother to a Buddhist temple. So I sort of formally joined a Sangha community from there.

[00:08:53] Sarah Cavanaugh: So what was it like moving to the U.S.?

[00:08:56] Venerable Jue Ji: from Taiwan. Uh, originally, I learned Buddhism, studied Buddhism, and practiced Buddhism in the headquarter monastery in the southern part of Taiwan, and I stayed there for nine years.

And after nine years, I was assigned to Hong Kong and then stay in Hong Kong for, for another nine years where I learned my Cantonese and, and then, uh, my master further assigned me to the States in year 2008. And when I was assigned there, it was in California. Then staying there for six years, I was further assigned to Austin, Texas in year 2014.

So from 2014, hey, it's about 10 years I stay in Austin.

[00:09:53] Sarah Cavanaugh: So you, you have at least three languages.

[00:09:54] Venerable Jue Ji: Yes, yes, my, my mother tongue is actually Taiwanese, and then in Taiwan, the official language is Mandarin. Then, in Hong Kong, I have to learn Cantonese to survive there. Yes, and in the States, I have to use English.

[00:10:22] Sarah Cavanaugh: So four languages. Yes. So, I'm curious if you felt grief leaving your home country.

[00:10:29] Venerable Jue Ji: At the beginning, it's not easy. Because I don't have relatives in Hong Kong when I went there and I have to start from language and then I have to know the devotees there and I have to learn how people in Hong Kong live because though we are all from Asians, but lifestyle can be very different and the way of thinking, the way of doing things are different.

And so at that time I thought to myself, it's my rebirth from life in Taiwan to life in Hong Kong. And that experience also helped me to be more detached. to what I have had. If you have been living in the same environment or same country for a long time, then you get used to a lot of things. You take everything for granted.

When I was assigned to Hong Kong, then it is, it was the first time in my life that I live in a totally new country, a new place. Then when I was further assigned to the States, I feel okay. Not good, but okay. And that also prepare myself that after this life, when I go to another life. It will be like this.

It will be like this. You learn. A new start. You learn everything from beginning and then you start to reestablish your relationship with others from scratch.

[00:12:15] Sarah Cavanaugh: You mentioned you have an older brother. Was there, are there any losses in your life that have impacted you?

[00:12:22] Venerable Jue Ji: I would say the loss of my mom, um, which just happened last year when I visit Taiwan in December, I have to attended an event in December and so I have to attend an event in December and so I went to see her and she was already lying in the bed.

She was 97, by the way. She lost her ability to talk. But I can, I can feel that she still know me. She, she knows that I was back home. And so December 28th, My, my flight was, um, that I have to, to leave my home by 4 p. m. And then so, 3. 45 p. m., my brother, who stayed with my mom, calling me when I, I stay, I was nearby in the living room.

And my brother says, Come, come to. Here come here. And then so I went to beside my mom's bed. I can feel that her breathing is very difficult. So I hold on to her hand. And then I said to my mom, I said that, um. Tris, you recite the Buddha's name and then there Amitabha Buddha is in the Western Pure Land waiting for you.

So you don't have to worry about us. We are very fine here. Um, my brothers, my sisters, we will get along well together. So you don't have to, you don't need to have any. Worries, concerns about us and then why I'm saying this, I hold her hands and I can feel that she sort of press my hands so I can feel it's a way that she's, she replied, yes, she has heard what I said.

And then, so, after about 10 minutes, then she passed away, right in front of my eyes. And my brother and my sister says that, um, my, my mom was waiting for me coming back, um, because I was in, uh, Taiwan. Last September, because I have, I need to come back and then fly back. And it seems that, uh, she was waiting for my second return home.

And so for me, it's, it's very difficult because my fright. Yeah, that I have to leave my home by 4 p. m. and my mom just passed away just one or two minutes before I have to leave my house. So it's, it's very difficult. But at the same time, I also feel that. I was lucky that I can be beside her and holding her hand while saying goodbye, and if I, if I don't have that chance, I will, I will feel regret for the rest of my life.

[00:15:50] Sarah Cavanaugh: It sounds like she waited for you.

[00:15:52] Venerable Jue Ji: Right, right. And, and, um, so all the teachings that I have learned and practiced for so many years, it's a test for that moment, whether I really understand what the Buddha's teaching of detachment, of everything is impermanent and accepting that. Birth, aging, sickness, and death.

That's the process of life. It's, it's so easy just saying it, but so difficult to accept it. While the dearest person in your family, um, is facing the issue of death.

[00:16:37] Sarah Cavanaugh: Do you feel like it makes you a better faith leader to have experienced such a loss?

[00:16:44] Venerable Jue Ji: I, I will say yes. Right. Though in Buddhism, we say that in, in our past, we have experienced hundred and thousand times of departure to your beloved ones like this.

But I guess we fall, we are very forgetful. So, so in this, so in this life, we have to start all over again.

[00:17:07] Sarah Cavanaugh: So one part of the Buddhist faith that really resonates with me is radical acceptance of the way things are. And so much of my work is helping people accept their mortality, that we'll all die someday.

You're talking a little bit about your mom's death makes me think, how have you thought about your own death?

[00:17:28] Venerable Jue Ji: Sometimes, sometimes when I sleep, and then I tell myself. What if I don't get up from my bed tomorrow? And then a lot of things like a popped into my mind and a lot of applications, duties, responsibilities that I haven't handed down to, to others.

So what will life be without me? Okay. What would this temple be without me? And then I do more preparation work. So in my weekly meeting with the other, uh, Venerables, I will tell them what I'm doing now and what's the plan. And so that they would know how to handle that. If anything happens to me and one more.

Very important concept that my master always saying is that the life process is birth, aging, illness, and death. And since this is, um, a process in this life, and we believe that we have future life. So my, my, my master sort of play with this process a little bit, and He says, okay, when I'm talking to you now, you're already past the process of birth.

So why don't we say life process is aging, illness, death, and. So it's the same process, but you just cut in different sections. So if you see life in that way, you feel promising, after death, that is life. And even for non-Buddhist believers. Okay? It is also easy in our daily life, okay? Because that process can be applied to anything, okay?

So for example, the four seasons, how about, how about we start from summer, summer, autumn, winter, and spring, right?

[00:19:52] Sarah Cavanaugh: Do you have a ritual to practice death?

[00:19:57] Venerable Jue Ji: That is an evening chanting, okay? Life is like a fish living in the water, in the pool, okay? And then the water is getting, getting less. The water is getting less day by day.

What is the joy of that fish living in that water? So, so every day when it comes to the evening chanting, when I chant to that, my life is like a fish living in The water, where the water is getting less and less, so you know one day the pool will dry, right? So thinking about that, the text continues that, therefore, we have to practice.

To, to know the teaching, to realize the teaching of the Buddha, to practice diligently. So the, the, the decreasing water becomes an inspiration. That you have to work harder and harder. And so from the day we were born to this world, we are heading to that death, right? So the days we are counting down, the days that we have at hands, it seems that time passes faster as we get older.

And actually, time is the same, right, 60 seconds a minute, 365 days per year. But how come you feel time flies faster than before?

[00:21:45] Sarah Cavanaugh: That is so interesting. We were just talking about how fast time seems to be flying right now. Yeah. But it doesn't. doesn't go by any faster. Right. Yeah. It's so interesting.

[00:21:57] Venerable Jue Ji: So what, what's your answer? What, what makes it flies faster?

[00:22:03] Sarah Cavanaugh: I think when we slow down, it doesn't fly as fast. I think that, you know, I think I don't live a monastic life, but I know that the days where I am more conscious and intentional, it doesn't seem as if the day has gone by without my noticing.

Some of the things that I've seen come up again and again for people facing the end of their lives are regrets, forgiveness, and suffering. They're mostly afraid of suffering, not really afraid of dying, but afraid of the suffering that comes before you die. And people want forgiveness or to forgive. And I wondered if you have guidance for those of us working through that now or in the last chapter of our lives.

[00:22:56] Venerable Jue Ji: We use the term instead of forgiveness, we use the term repentance. And so, repentance is very much used in our daily practice. So in our ritual services, we have all kinds of repentance ceremony or dharma services. So we do chanting and then there is a text, Buddhist text, that tells us how to repent and why do we have to repent.

And so like many people, they say that Venerable, I didn't do anything wrong. Why I have to repent? I'm such a good person and people like me, and then I have earned a lot of money. Good fortune, good luck, good family. Why should I repent? So in the text of the repentance surface, it says very clearly that.

It's from begin, begin less time that we have done something wrong in our behavior, in our speech, in our thought. So these are the three main areas that we can commit wrongdoings. To others, and sometimes without knowing that we are hurting other people. So therefore, for Buddhists to join a repentance ceremony, usually it's about two hours.

And so. At least within the two hours of repentance in front of the Buddha and reciting the text, at least during the two hour, you are very humble to prostrate in front of the Buddha. At least within the two hours, you are thinking of nothing else but You are very humble and sincerely to, to, to repent in front of the Buddha.

And so prostration can be a very good way in physical behavior that.

[00:25:18] Sarah Cavanaugh: So are you actually prostrated? On the on your on your stomach.

[00:25:23] Venerable Jue Ji: Yes. Yeah, we have a kneeler in our main shrine. So you're bowing, prostrating down, hold your body. By doing this, you are submitting yourself to the Honorable One, Holy One in front of you.

And then when you after you're finishing that repentance ceremony, you feel that You have done something.

[00:25:53] Sarah Cavanaugh: You've been forgiven. It's a forgiveness of yourself and of others.

[00:25:57] Venerable Jue Ji: Right, right. You feel the bad karma is getting lighter and lighter. Right. So that's why it's a, it has been a very popular practice among Chinese Buddhists.

Uh, for my Westerner devotees here, they are learning, and it seems that, it seems that it's very difficult to get Westerners to kneel down, to bow. I would invite them to do the prostrations, and then if not, kneeling down, at least do a half bow, that will do. This kind of bowing, it's a, it's a way that to tell yourself that you, you are not that great.

You don't, you don't clean on your big ego that much. You become more selfless. I love that. Yeah, and then you are, you, you, you are doing that together with others. And that also make you feel that you are not alone in doing the repentance.

[00:27:10] Sarah Cavanaugh: Yeah, you're doing that in community and it's interesting because the Catholic faith, actually the confessional is sort of a a lonely place, and it's with an authority figure.

This is doing something in community, which is humbling oneself with others. Right. So what does Buddhism tell us about what happens after death?

[00:27:33] Venerable Jue Ji: In this life, life is a combination of body and mind. So in the Western English word, you use soul. But in Buddhism, we use mind and body. After we finish this life, we are going to another life.

And there is an interval in between two lives. The bardo, okay?

Sarah Cavanaugh: How do you spell that?

Venerable Jue Ji: B A R D O. It's, uh, it's an existence that visually you don't see that. It's an energy existence, okay? And in that stage, the bardo doesn't know where to go and what drives that bardo to go through next life. And that is what we call karma.

Right? And karma is what we do in this life or in our past lives. Okay, so all these combining force, we call it karmic force, that drive the bardo to go to another life. So, instead of the parent may say that, Oh, I gave birth to my baby from the Buddhist perspective. Is that the baby choose you to be their parents?

Why? Why I say choose? It's because that karmic force will help the bardo to make the decision where to go, which family to go. And then the family that the baby is about to born must have. The comic connection with that baby. So you feel, you know, you, you have kids yourself?

[00:29:28] Sarah Cavanaugh: I have, I have three and I love the, uh, I love the thought that they chose me.

So the concept of past lives and future lives can be really hard for some to even consider. And I, I, why do you think that's a hard concept for Westerners?

[00:29:47] Venerable Jue Ji: I think Westerners think life is just this life span. That's it. And then also the creator god concept is that your life comes from That creator, God, and then after this life, and then you can join God the Father in heaven.

I think this kind of concept confines people's idea about that your lifetime line can be limitless in the past and limitless in the future. And so for Buddhists, instead of With everything back to the God, we, we put everything to karma, and karma is what we did in the past. So in Buddhism, we emphasize more about responsibility of our fate is in our hands, and we cannot blame a higher god up there for not helping us. And before we are strong enough to help ourselves, we rely on the other power. However, as we continue to cultivate ourselves on the spiritual path, we have to learn Self-reliance that we have to change our karma, uh, in this life. And that's what I say that as we mature in age, we know that what is left, our time, what is left in this life is not enough.

Right? So we, we become more diligent in our practice, hoping that, uh, next life, I need to choose a good family. And then that family, my parents in my next life, should allow me to continue to practice, to continue my spiritual path.

[00:31:47] Sarah Cavanaugh: So with that context about karmic force and future lives, what does a peaceful exit mean to you?

[00:31:56] Venerable Jue Ji: It is said that at our dying moment, that many bad things or good things that we have done in our life, including my past life, there will be like a movie shoot in a twist of your fingers, then you see all your life. And if I see bad things that happen, say, if I say something bad to Sarah, you then won't.

At my last moment, this definitely will appear, and I will regret. So, I have to do a lot of repentance in this life, and I have to do a lot of things to benefit others, so that the last movie that I see in my dying moment, I will see all the good things.

[00:32:46] Sarah Cavanaugh: I have a feeling that movie will be beautiful in your case.

[00:32:49] Venerable Jue Ji: Thank you. And then the same wishes to you.

[00:32:53] Sarah Cavanaugh: It has been an absolute pleasure to meet you and speak with you today.

[00:32:57] Venerable Jue Ji: Okay. My pleasure too.

[00:33:03] Sarah Cavanaugh: Thank you for listening to Peaceful Exit. I'm your host, Sarah Cavanaugh. You can find me on Instagram at @APeacefulExit. And you can learn more about this podcast at peacefulexit.net. Our senior producer and editor is Katy Klein. Our sound engineer is Jeff Gall. Additional support from Cindy Gal and Ciara Austin.

Original music provided by Ricardo Russell, with additional music and sounds from Blue Dot Sessions. If you'd like to support our show, please follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, rate and review us wherever you listen. It really does make a difference. And as always, thank you so much for listening.