Second Chances with Quan Huynh

Quan Huynh's story details the resilience of the human spirit. His book, "Sparrow in the Razor Wire: Finding Freedom from Within While Serving a Life Sentence," is an open, honest look at his life while incarcerated for committing murder. Quan was paroled in 2015, and, just six months later, he started his first company. He has devoted his entire career to helping incarcerated people have the best shot at a second chance. His lessons of internal transformation, healing, and friendship are universal.

You can learn more about Quan and his work here: https://quanxhuynh.com/

Transcript:

Sarah Cavanaugh: [00:00:00] I am Sarah Cavanaugh and this is Peaceful Exit, the podcast where we talk to creatives about life and death.

My guest today is Quan Huynh, and he is the definition of transformation. In 1999, Quan shot and killed a man in a gang related incident. He received a prison sentence of 15 years to life at a time when California didn't parole people serving life sentences. Many years later, the law changed, and Quan was released in 2015.

Just six months later, he started his first company and he's devoted his entire career to helping incarcerated people have the best shot at a second chance. His book is called Sparrow in the Razor Wire: Finding Freedom From Within while Serving a Life Sentence. Quan writes in great detail and a lot of honesty about his life [00:01:00] and time in prison and taking responsibility for his actions.

In our conversation, we talk about everything from his writing process, life to his work today.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Well, hello there. Welcome to Peaceful Exit.

Quan Huynh: Thanks for having me, Sarah.

Quan, I'm so excited to have you here today as I first found you through our mutual friend. Tammy White, she shared your book Sparrow in the Razor Wire, which is about your time in prison.

And I was so moved by your stories today. You're no longer incarcerated, but you're helping those who are. And I wonder, could you tell me about the organization you work with now? I

Quan Huynh: work as the executive director for Defined Ventures in Southern California, and our mission is to shift mindsets, to give people with criminal histories their best shot at the second chance.

So I oversee a, uh, a program that's called the CEO of Your New Life. We teach, uh, career [00:02:00] readiness, personal development, and entrepreneurship training. It's a seven month curriculum, 2000 pages of curriculum. Um, and it culminates in a business pitch competition that's judged Shark Tank style by volunteers that I bring in, uh, with me from the business community.

So when we have these events, I go in there and, um, I help lead an mc and facilitate the entire events.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you wrote so openly about your experience in prison, um, from the conversations with your bunk mate and the makeshift cooking, uh, to the violence and informal rules to survive, do you think we need more firsthand accounts of life inside prison?

There should just be more account.

Quan Huynh: People's lives. I think the narrative is, okay, they're in prison and they're just locked up and that's it. But I think life goes on and there's some of the most beautiful human beings that I've met, uh, in my life are ones that are still incarcerated and there are ones that may never come [00:03:00] home.

Uh, so yeah, I mean, that's just one place of many that we could find different stories and perspectives.

Sarah Cavanaugh: I would just love to know what motivated you to write a book about your story.

Quan Huynh: It was after a talk I did in Austin, Texas. Uh. One of the people that was there, it was, it was called My One Last Talk. And one of the people that was there was, uh, four times New York Times bestselling author, uh, Tucker Max.

So what I didn't know is that he had brought in his team to listen to my talk 'cause he has a book writing company called Scribe where he, they helped authors to get published and uh, he knew what I was talking about. What I didn't know is that he brought in his team and. He wanted his team buy-in to give me a, a scholarship to go through their process to write a book.

So that's when he encouraged me and that's where the process kind of began. I remember about two weeks before I flew out to Austin to begin the book writing process. I [00:04:00] actually had, uh, I. Messaged him on Facebook and I said, Hey, Tucker. Um, I don't, I don't think I have a book. I read everything that you sent over.

I don't know who's the book for. I don't know who the audience is. Like, I don't think anyone would want, anyone would wanna know my story. And, um, Tucker in Tucker Max Fashion told me, uh, Quan, your story's already told. Get your ass out here to Austin. So that was, we tell everyone, oh, I just, I, I had to set quo straight, you know.

Well

Sarah Cavanaugh: love to hear from authors their, about their writing process.

Quan Huynh: Oh yeah. That we had what they're called a vomit draft where you just throw it all out there and then, and then came the editing, if you notice on the back of the book, on the bio, do you see where it says Quan HU has been described as a mighty warrior magician, and not, my goodness.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Mm-hmm.

Quan Huynh: Do you know where I got that from? Would you like to know? Yes. So Tammy, when she came into prison and we were facilitating together, there's [00:05:00] these sheets that we sign for each other and it has like you write words of encouragement for the people that you interacted with throughout the, the weekend.

And Tammy wrote on there to me, um, you are a mighty warrior, a magician, and a mountain of goodness. You're one of the greatest treasures. Of my life. And I remember reading those words and it, it, it just, I don't know, something shifted me like, oh my God, somebody sees me in this way. Like, I never saw myself in this way.

Um, and I always just loved the, those words. So I, I. Appropriated from, from her and I used it and I put it in my bios and everything. Yeah. That's how I get to get to uh, uh, uh, introduce myself. That sounds like Tammy. Yeah. How did you two meet? Tammy and I met at Solano State Prison. At the time, I was still serving my life sentence.

Um, and she came in as a volunteer. So we facilitated in several workshops together, uh, while I was inside. [00:06:00] And we're scheduled to be, uh, uh, uh, do another one together at Solano State Prison in April if everything works out.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Oh, she must be thrilled. I know that when I talked to her last, she said that she was really hoping that you would.

So speaking of the back of your book, Brian Stevenson's quote on the back of your book says, redemption is one of the most powerful forces on Earth and WAN'S memoir, some of the best evidence you'll find. Is this a theme? That resonates with you.

Quan Huynh: That was so cool. One of the things I always say is, um, I believe all human beings are salvageable.

Like, um, uh, a human being can do, you know, the greatest act of good and the most, uh, evil act on the same day. Like, we just have all of those, uh, capacities to do that within it. So

Sarah Cavanaugh: the complexity of being human, and I remember from the story that you, it was a job. Promotion or a management position [00:07:00] that kind of sparked the grief in you and the, you know, the emotion that kind of led to that moment.

Quan Huynh: I had been asked to, uh, interview for a management position, and I just think everything up to, to my life. At that point, I had no sense of direction. I had already been, um. In and out of the, the, the juvenile hall and the youth Authority. So I just felt like, oh, this is finally, something's gonna go right for once in my life.

Um, and they came back and they said, you are not a fit. That's the exact words they used. I don't think they meant anything by it, but I think being not a fit resonated in a. A different way for me, always feeling like I didn't fit, uh, growing up in pro Utah, not feeling like I fit in with my peers. And then coming up here to California, um, going to school for the first time with, uh, other, um.

Vietnamese kids and also being [00:08:00] teased for not being able to speak our language well. So I also felt that I didn't fit there. So there was just this theme of identity, um, not fitting in, not feeling recognized. And I, I saw that play out in just everything that I grew up in.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Yeah, that makes sense. Another theme I found in your book is Peace and this podcast being peaceful exit.

I'm always looking for new ways to look at peace. Um, and you, you found peace while incarcerated and that really impacted my perspective. Um, you decided to view that time and prison differently, uh, but that didn't change the reality of prison. Actually

Quan Huynh: did change the reality of prison for me though, right?

Uh, it, it changed the perspective of why I was there. It changed it, it prison ca. Became from a this cold, harsh, desolate place to a place where I felt like, what does the world, what does the universe, what does [00:09:00] God have in store for me today? What impact can I make? What good can I put into the world? And I just felt like I was, I'm perfectly where I'm supposed to be.

I'm perfectly at peace. I'm in some forgotten corner of the world, yet I am doing, you know, uh. Good work. And, and, and I knew it, and I felt it, and, and I felt alive. I mean, I, up to that point in my life, I had not felt alive. I felt most alive in those workshops with Kami. Um, when I'm, I'm, I'm sharing grief and, and talking about difficult, um, challenges with, uh, uh, my own life or sharing difficult challenges that the men on our yard were experiencing.

So yeah, I think. It's funny 'cause I recently, we created a video for people that are incarcerated that are going through our curriculum and we talk about freedom inside. And I tell the guys inside like, you're, you can find your freedom now. It's not waiting until you go home. Um, and I tell 'em, [00:10:00] I go, I, I've come across people out here living in fancy houses, eating great dinners that are more imprisoned than many of them in there.

Even though I said I wrote my book, for men that are doing longer or life term sentences, I've been told quite often that book is more than for just people in prison or you know, everybody is in some type of prison of themselves.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Not everyone shares so openly. What guided you while you were sharing these stories?

Quan Huynh: During my workshops, when I was facilitating, I felt that I was most effective when I shared of my mistakes I shared of. Challenges I had that wasn't from a place where I was teaching or or telling. So I decided, okay, um, I'm gonna write from that perspective. And there's another one, uh, thing I'll share with you is that, uh, there's this thing I call my table of truth where who's sitting at your table, [00:11:00] like the things that you're doing is to, the choices that I'm making, the things that I'm saying, the way that I'm showing up is.

Because who I allowed to sit at my table. So this is my table too. So when I was doing my writing process, um, the people sitting at my table was my 8-year-old self. I had my father. I had, uh, David, who was the avatar of the person I'm writing for is like somebody that's incarcerated, stuck in a very dark place, doesn't want to do any type of self-reflection.

And I also had my table of truth, Mr. Min wind, the man that I shot and killed. So when I began my writing process. When I'm writing something, like I remember some of the most eloquent, beautiful pieces that I wrote did not make it into my book. I scratched it out because it did not serve the people at that table.

So I go, this is who I'm writing this for. This is, this story is for them. So these four people there. And if it didn't, then I just pulled it [00:12:00] out and I go, that could be for a different story or, or some of the funniest stories they share. I go, oh, this has no, nothing to do with the book. So, um, that helped guide my, my writing process.

Sarah Cavanaugh: I love that idea of that table of truth. Well, I think I might have to create a table of truth for my book because Yes, I think that's a wonderful idea.

Quan Huynh: Okay. I think I found the paradox in getting very niche and very, um, clear in who the target audience is, is that. The paradox in it is because there's universal lessons in, in, in what I'm sharing for that particular person.

But then there people could draw some universal lessons out. I saw it, so I was like, oh, this, this happened.

Sarah Cavanaugh: It's almost as if you were focusing, you're actually also broadening out to a bigger audience. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Amazing. That's so cool. So every writer loves, uh, a beautiful metaphor. And, um, the moment in the book when [00:13:00] I read about the sparrow being injured and then, and then healing, but still going, and still singing, you know, and that, and that moment when you, it was sort of the, the shift between.

Being incarcerated and bitter and angry to, you know, realizing that bird's been singing all this time and I hadn't noticed. And then to use that as the be metaphor for your book, um, it's, it's just so beautiful. Can you tell me a little bit about this sparrow metaphor and, uh, did you all, did you always know that would be the title?

Quan Huynh: No, I did not. It was like, it was right when I was writing to that till I got to that park and I'm writing about it and I go. This is gonna be the name of my book. This like, I would think at that time I had finished about 30, 40% of, of my vomit draft. Um, and that's when I realized, oh, this will be the title.

So the sparrow and razor wire. I chopped my sparrow in the razor wire moment, but. [00:14:00] 11, 12 years into my life sentence, several things happened. I received a picture from my brother of my niece, that's his daughter. When it took me back to our childhood, I also found out that my grandfather, my father's father, had passed away.

And then that also triggered me back to like, okay, my father died when he was 38. And at that time I was about 35 or something like that. And I asked myself like, look at what? My father had did in his life the impact that he had made The great. Goodness he did in this world. And then I contrasted that with like, look where I am at.

Like, is this it for me? Like was this really what I was meant for is just to be on this earth and just die here in prison.

Sarah Cavanaugh: What was life like after your sparrow and the razor wire moment? I. What changed?

Quan Huynh: I suddenly became fascinated about books on the Saints and in particular gravitated to stories about saints that had failed in their lives, yet had gone on to [00:15:00] create these orders and legacies for themselves.

And then that of course, led to books on spirituality and meditation and personal development. So I'm going down all of these things and my head was just filled with all these teachings and it was just one morning on the the prison yard when. I was just walking and my head was filled up with all these things, and that's when I had asked myself like, why do I have to view prison as punishment?

Why can't this be a place that I can remake myself? I remember that moment very well. Like the sun was barely coming up over those hills at so loto, I could feel the warmth on it. Um, in the little blades of grass, I could see the individual drops a dew and up above meaning the VAs wire is when I heard that sparrow chirping.

And like I shared that look like the sparrows had probably been chirping my entire prison term. I did not hear it, but that day I heard it. To this day, every time I hear a little sparrow trope and I just, oh look, here's another sparrow.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Oh, that's beautiful and also heartbreaking. 'cause you imagine them trying to land on the razor [00:16:00] wire.

Quan Huynh: So from there I, um, the first thing I did was I checked into therapy and I began. 25 years after my father passed away, began grieving his death, going through the mo uh, grief and loss process. So of course, being the, uh, consummate bookworm, I became fascinated with Elizabeth Kugler Ross's model on death of dying.

And I started reading into all that. And then I realized around me, like, wait. There are all these men here going through their own mourning and grieving process, whether that's because they've lost a family member, a family member has divorced them, um, people have, have cut them out of their life. So I put together a syllabus and I submitted it to the prison psychologist who loved it, and I got to be build and create the prison's first ever grief and loss group.

Um, and to see the very first session we had [00:17:00] where men had not been able to cry or, or shed tears for probably years or decades, and for them to talk about stuff and. That's where I became like, oh my goodness, this is my purpose is to, this is how I can do good in the world and make impact. That's how I lived while in prison for the last few years.

Whereas before it was just, I was just living a minimal existence, had no sense of purpose, and then suddenly I have a sense of purpose. I, I have meaning in my life. I have fulfillment and I'm doing a life sentence with not a possibility of ever coming home, um, at the time. So.

Sarah Cavanaugh: So your dad died from leukemia when you were really young.

Yeah.

Quan Huynh: 13.

Sarah Cavanaugh: How did that loss impact your path?

Quan Huynh: It was such a bizarre day, and I didn't realize until I was writing it, you know, my, my, I wake up, my father had leukemia for like the past five years already. He was in and outta hospital and in. Discussions now with my brothers and sister. Like we [00:18:00] all, that was the day of our first communion.

We all had in our mind, we're going to go to church, to mass, and we are going to pray after we eat the bread. Our first prayer is gonna be, you know, God just let my dad live. And that morning I remember, I, I came into the restroom and my little sister, uh, peeks her head up from the shower. She says, oh, dad died last night.

We're not supposed to know. So I said, okay. So I go back into my room with my brother and tell him, dad died last night, but we're not supposed to know. Um, and I just repressed it. I remember all, but in writing, I go, wait, we went to church that day. Everybody knows dad is dead. My mom's not talking about, my grandma's not talking about, there it is.

Here's the priest talking about this is a celebratory day. And we're, and I think inside it was me, my brother, my sister. We did not know what was going on. And it just felt like a haze. I remember my sister threw up when we got outside, uh, when my mom first said, okay, your dad died last night. [00:19:00] And then we never talked about it again.

So it was huge for me to finally begin to grieve his, uh, death. 'cause then I was able to write him a letter. I was able to see choices that I made or to the world that I had created for myself. Up, up until I had committed murder was like, okay, these were things to protect myself, but. Also very destructive for, for me and my soul.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Also allowed you to remember like the, you talk about the road trips you took with your dad and how meaningful those were. So do you talk to your dad now?

Quan Huynh: I kind of do. I think, um, the, the road trips that we, that I loved, I get to do them now because I go into prison early in the morning, so I'm up before dawn sometimes and just driving.

And my father loved the road and I think I, I, I. I love it too. I like the, the, the solitude and the, the quiet.

Sarah Cavanaugh: You can just remember him in those times. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Quan Huynh: Yeah. It was pointed out to me like, you know, your [00:20:00] father was, um, when he created the Vietnamese Refugee Association, he got to welcome people to their new homeland.

Like he got them to a adjust. And someone pointed out to me, son, you're following in your father's footsteps. You're welcoming people coming home from incarceration to their new homelands. I was like, oh yes, I get to do this. So,

Sarah Cavanaugh: and most likely when they come out there, even if it is the place they were born and raised, it has changed.

Quan Huynh: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Stranger in a strange land for them. So technology has come and gone and Yeah, the world, I mean, some of the are program participants. 25, 30 years incarcerated.

Sarah Cavanaugh: What that changed for you when you came outta prison?

Quan Huynh: The self, uh, serve, uh, kiosks at the supermarket. I remember that. Or I, I even remember walking up to the, um, the kiosk at the airport to fly out and [00:21:00] punching in, and it was all touchscreen and my family dynamics had not changed and I didn't recognize how it was Syria.

I'm like, oh. Nobody's really communicating effectively. A lot of the groups I was doing in there, we learned about effective communication. We learned about being assertive, drawing boundaries, giving I statement. That was probably, uh, a heartbreaking, uh, realization and what a gift that I get to have so that I don't hold onto the toxic ways of communicating.

And this, um. This toxic way of holding onto like not being able to forgive and things like that.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Mm-hmm. What are your relationships now with your brother and sister? Me and my sister actually had really good

Quan Huynh: communication. Um, it was, it was really special 'cause I lived with her the first two and a half years when I came home.

So, uh, it was really cool to see like what, uh. What a, a, a beautiful woman my sister had grown into. 'cause like when I first got arrested, she was, I think a [00:22:00] freshman in high school and I just knew her as this little, my little, uh, uh, sister. And then I was going in and out from high school going in and out of the, the system.

So to be able to live to see, uh, her as responsible adult, um. That was really cool. Some of, uh, my biggest conflicts were with my brother. I think that because I think he saw me one way as coming in and then I guess there was a, he couldn't like, wait, this is the gang member I knew from that then, so he's always gonna look at me from that lens, and I think I didn't, uh.

Totally aligned. 'cause I'm not that same person. But it's not that he did it in a judgmental way, I think it was just more that's the lens that he just saw me from. So we had some conflicts at first. Uh, we worked them out. So now it's just, okay, this is, this is a family. Um, he has his family and each of us are doing, uh.

Our way of

Sarah Cavanaugh: living out here. So I know it's not without struggle, but you've built this amazing life for yourself and you've done some really impressive things. [00:23:00] Uh, you started a business just six months after being paroled. How did you get started?

Quan Huynh: Well, I was part of Defi Ventures as an also an entrepreneur in training when I was incarcerated at Solano.

And I continued, uh, with some of their coursework upon release. Um, and I was working in. My brother's a real estate company, and one of the first things I noticed was that the building that his office was in, they weren't getting cleaned very well. I was like, man, this janitorial company here is not any good.

I used to work on the hospital cleaning crew when I was incarcerated, so I remember bringing up to him like, why don't we create a a, a company, uh, a janitorial company. Why don't you create it? And I could help manage it. And my brother's like, well, you can't just create a company out of thin. But yet, I still continue with the coursework.

And then one day my sister-in-law said, Hey, can you help me write a cover letter? And I said, yeah. So she said, yeah, it's gonna be for my [00:24:00] uncle. Um, the building owner here wants to get rid of the janitorial company and they're just gonna hire my uncle. I helped with the cover letter and the next day she came back and she said like, Hey, my uncle doesn't want to do this, uh, uh, clean this place.

Do you want to clean this building? And I said, yes, I do. And then she's like, okay. Um, I go, can you give me the email of the building owner? So she gave me the email and I emailed him at the Five Ventures they teach you to introduce yourself, you know, founder and CEO, whatever. And I was like, what is, am I gonna call my company?

So I went on to GoDaddy and I started looking up like I go, I want my company to sound valuable. So I was like, platinum janitors was taken, gold janitors was taken. And then I was like, huh, what about. Jade janitors like Asians. We love the jade stone. And so Jade janitors was, was not taken [00:25:00] 9 99. I purchased it.

Um, and I emailed the building owner, like my name's Quin, I'm the founder and CEO of Jade Janitors. I used to, uh, work on a, um, hospital cleaning crew up in Northern California. I'd like to have the opportunity to, uh, talk to you about cleaning your building. So he emails me back and says. Can you give me a copy of your business license and certificate?

And I didn't know how to go out getting that. So I asked family member like, Hey, how do you go about doing this? They said, oh, you have to go to the county courthouse, then you have to go to the city and file it. I was like, can we do that today? And I sent it back to the building owner. Um. And he said, uh, can you give me a quote?

This will probably take me about four hours to clean. If I put somebody else here, I'll pay him for about five hours to clean it. This is the rate I would pay them. This is the margin I'd want. And I sent off the quote and the building owner said, can you guys start Friday? Company's still running to this day.

I [00:26:00] could probably write a book about. A million things not to do on your first month of the, um, running a business. I did. So I made so many mistakes, but, um, I learned and I pivoted and I learned and continued like, yeah,

Sarah Cavanaugh: that's the magic, you know, continuous learning. Yeah. And using those mistakes is learning opportunities.

My father actually all always taught us to celebrate our failures. How do people leaving prison have the best shot at a second chance?

Quan Huynh: When we say our work is to shift mindsets, to give people with criminal history at the best shot at the second chance, it's more, um, there's a flip side to that, and that's why we bring in people from the business community, um, the tech world, venture capitalists, because we believe those are the people that, that actually help us achieve systemic change.

Mean we could have the most transformed individual coming outta prison, and if they're still facing barriers to entry in employment, financial services, and lending housing, all of that, there's still. Much work to be done. So that's why we intentionally bring the business world in with this. [00:27:00] Um, that's why we bring CEOs.

That's why um, we position ourselves as subject matter experts in being able to reduce recidivism, help increase problem of safety. This is our work. And wait, it makes sense to also save the state money. Yes. And humanize people that are coming back to our communities. Yes. Why not? That's what, um, that's what we do.

So to give people the best shot at a second chance, it's not just incarcerate them and then there is no type of rehabilitative program. There has to be rehabilitative programs, there has to be communities that will believe in them. I. There has to be investment and, and, and, and, and like people that will take a chance to hire them or there's, has to be advocacy from like, uh, organizations like ours or others that begin to build employment partnerships and, and networks and to share and collaborate with each other.

I. Um, in the same space. The first question we have to ask somebody is, do you like, do you yourself believe in second chances? I think my most interesting conversations and the [00:28:00] ones I wanna pull my hair out sometimes is usually with HR reps. 'cause they're just like, this is what I've been told. But I go, but why?

Like, they haven't even questioned. It's like, well this is just part of our training. This is part of our policy. There has to be not just our program, which I love, but there also has to be, uh, continued advocacy and, and continuing building up the ripple effects. What's life for you like today? I mean, it's life, right?

Like there's, there's great days and then there's days where like, oh man, now what do I do? There's a funder that just pulled their funding, okay, so what do I do now? And there's all this other stuff that's happening. Okay. And then last year when the funding got pulled, I had to let a team member go. So that wasn't a cool conversation.

But then on the flip side, okay, now I get to go back into prison and I got to attend Harvard Business School. So I'm, it was like. I get stuck in traffic and then I can remind myself, wait, there's 30,000 other lifers in the state of California that would love to be stuck in traffic. Like, it's not the end of the [00:29:00] world.

It's okay.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Sparrow and the razor wire came out after you'd been home for five years. What would be your second book?

Quan Huynh: I mean, I've been told like you have to write more. You don't have to. Um,

Sarah Cavanaugh: that's, I don't believe in shoulds.

Quan Huynh: Yeah, that's true. That's true. I was very clear on when I was writing Sparrow. Once I, once I, once I went out to uh, Austin, I was very clear on who am I writing for and what problem am I solving.

So I think until I figure out what is my next audience and what problem am I solving and why am I gonna hold them hostage to my thoughts and all of that and everything, then I can write something else. Then from there, who am I gonna sit at my table of truth for this book? And let's get clear, and then I'll be going back writing again.

Sarah Cavanaugh: What does legacy mean to you and what's your legacy or what do you want it to be?

Quan Huynh: So, during my editing process, you know, I had a goal like, okay, uh, six days a [00:30:00] week, eight to 9:00 AM two 50 words a day. That was what I set up for myself. And I wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote. And some days I. It's a great productive day.

I wrote 2,500 words. Other days I struggled and I only hit 2 25, but it's okay. But then when I got to editing, it's like circular and removing words. I'm sitting there for an hour and at the end of the re-fixing a paragraph, I have like a met seven words. So that used to draw me crazy. Um. Then Ryan Holiday's book landed in my lap around that time, this book, perennial Seller.

And in it he had posed a question about like, if you're doing a work of art, what do you want people to say about this work of art? Um, and I remember, I go, okay, I could say I'm done with the book. And I could just be a publisher author, but I want my book. Five years from now, 10 years from now, somebody would still recommend it to somebody else [00:31:00] inside prison and say, this could help you.

Or a, there's this group we're running. It's based on this book Sparrow, and raise our, come join this group that will help you with your mindset to change. That was what I. I asked myself, what do I want to do with this book? That is the legacy I wanted to create, and suddenly I found out Donovan in San Diego, they have a group called the Sparrow and Raise Wire group, and they are studying my book to help them.

I have. Had numerous letters from people in prison nationally. I don't know where. Writing me and say, thank you for writing your, your sharing your story has helped me. I mean, I recently, uh, partnered with, uh, ed ovo, which is a platform, a learning platform that puts um, uh, um. Onto tablets that are given to the incarcerated.

So I was able to get my book onto their learning platform. [00:32:00] It's given entirely free. So overnight, 850,000, uh, men and women nationally have access to my book. I. So that's like, that's what I wanted to do, and they're able to have access to it. Wow, that's

Sarah Cavanaugh: that's fantastic. One of the questions I always ask my guests is what a peaceful exit means to you.

Quan Huynh: Peaceful exit means to me is, did I try my best every day? You know, when I was found suitable at the pro board in. Um, 2015, there's this process here in California where, um, it's 150 days that you have to wait to stay incarcerated while they're doing the paperwork and all that. Um, and I, I knew I was leaving like 150 days, I'm going to be gone.

So I was very intentional about how am I gonna live out my last 150 days. In this world, in prison, connecting with the men around [00:33:00] me, making sure, like spending time, um, having meaningful conversations and not get my head into like, what am I gonna do when I get out? What am I gonna do? It was like, I'm present.

I'm gonna be here. Um, and before I leave this life, 'cause I know some of them would never see me again, and I would never see many of them again. What legacy can I leave with them during this last time? So I don't know. That's, uh, I felt like I already exited one life when I left the prison. Um, and I've entered into another, so,

Sarah Cavanaugh: yeah.

The way you're describing it, it, it is a death.

Quan Huynh: Mm-hmm. And I knew it. I go, this is, so let me mourn now, let me mourn these last 150 days with these men. Um, and, and, and be very intentional and, and, and like, um, sit here and listen to them and treasure these, these last conversations. And though that was, I'm glad I gave myself that gift.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Well, I'm so glad we had this [00:34:00] conversation. I'm really moved by your story.

Sarah Cavanaugh: Thank you for listening to Peaceful Exit. I'm your host, Sarah Cavanaugh. You can find me on Instagram at @APeacefulExit. And you can learn more about this podcast at peacefulexit.net. Our senior producer is Katy Klein, and our sound engineer is Shawn Simmons. This episode was edited by Sydney Gladu. Additional support from Cindy Gal and Ciara Austin.

Original music provided by Ricardo Russell, with additional music and sounds from Blue Dot Sessions. If you'd like to support our show, please follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, rate and review us wherever you listen. It really does make a difference. And as always, thank you so much for listening.